Ms Elaine Geraghty:

Deputy Boyd Barrett should look at the animation industry and maybe get to know it a little better. The structure is completely different from live action. It is not possible to compare the two. It might be helpful if the Deputy met Animation Ireland to discuss how that industry works because it is very different from live action and drama.

As producers who apply for section 481 relief, we are required to set up designated activity companies, DACs, which are responsible for engaging the crew. I have been in the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, many times, happily successfully, on occasions where the point in question has been around which is the employer and which is the DAC. It is very clear how the structure is set out with regard to section 481 and where obligations are required. There are contracts and holiday pay is paid. All of those things occur. I really do not know how I can say it any clearer. There is no obfuscation here. There is a very clear structure to which we are required to adhere.

The Deputy spoke about permanent employees. Consider the case of a production company that makes one project that requires construction and does not make another for four years. Is it being suggested that that company takes on a permanent staff of construction workers because that is the right thing to do, even if the company never makes a project that requires construction? That can never work and is not how it works. That allows people who work in construction, or whatever element of crewing they are in, to be hired for the projects that are suitable for their grades and talents. One cannot have-----