Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

I misread that. The NTMA also says that the amount of debt is largely unchanged since 2014.

On a previous occasion we were told that some bilateral debts had been paid off and we obviously have paid off some others. There has been borrowing in the meantime. Does Mr. O'Kelly have a figure for which is residual debt and which is new? We need to take on debt if we are to invest in capital and, with inflation, it makes sense for us to do some of those things. Is there a separation?