Mr. Bernard O'Regan:

I will make two comments. Regarding the point made on the lack of difference between section 38 and section 39 organisations, I think that is correct. It would not be possible to slip a sheet of paper in between the services provided, the language used in the legislation and in the contracts and to distinguish one as ancillary and the other as essential. That makes no sense when they are exactly the same services. This raises a core issue as to how we as a State and a country look at all our citizens and how we judge them. If we look at the services being provided by one organisation and we describe them as ancillary but exactly the same services as essential services for somebody else, we are saying something as a State to those people with disabilities regarding how the State views them. I do not believe that is how we think about it. We want to treat everybody equally. Our legislation and language, however, undermines some of that desire. We end up with differences regarding how staff are being paid for doing the same job depending on which organisation they happen to be employed by. That states something as well about the people in receipt of those supports and services. We have to be cognisant of that too.

Turning to the point made about avoiding going back to 2008, we as service providers are really conscious of how the economic downturn affected people with disabilities in Ireland. It affected all citizens but we have to be mindful that it had additional consequence for those people with disabilities. There is no way that we want to cause or participate in a process that brings the State backwards. That is not what we are about. It is important for us today to name the issue. We know we have a stake in the resolution of this problem. We made the point in our opening statement that the IRG recommendations are challenging for everybody. It is not just the State that has to do things. There are things in there that we will find challenging as well and that will require us to consider how we are doing things, how we are using our assets and many other aspects. If we are looking for the recommendations to be implemented, it behoves us to state that we are committing to something as well. That has to be to work jointly with the State so that we do not go back to 2008 and we do not get into this belief that what is involved is always about just throwing money at the problem. It cannot just be about that. Equally, we cannot state that it is not about some money. Any money invested, however, needs to be part of a strategy.