Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

That figure needs to be out there. Another issue concerns the hands-off approach of the Department of Health. That is obvious. It outsources responsibility to the HSE. The HSE then works with the umbrella groups to outsource service provision to the member organisations. The witnesses have outlined in detail how they have to balance corporate governance, company law and trading recklessly versus moral issues. The dependency of the users on the service providers must also be taken into account. That is a difficult position to be in.

This situation has been constructed and facilitated by the HSE. The Department of Health is aware of what is happening. It is a process whereby the HSE is effectively facilitating the potential for reckless trading, in some cases. The dichotomy is that on one side there is a necessity to behave in a certain manner while, on the other, there is no way in which we want services to be taken away. That is an impossible situation for all of these organisations to be left in. It is not the fault of the organisations. I know, however, where the finger of blame would be pointed if there were to be any issues. It would not be at the Department of Health or HSE. The finger of blame would be pointed at the witnesses' organisations. That is not right.

I want to focus now on the process that happens each year. I ask that the committee be sent a copy of the letter sent to the Irish Wheelchair Association stating there would be a cut of 20%. I also wonder whether it would be possible to canvass all the organisations that the witnesses represent and find as many of those types of letters as possible that have been issued in the past three years. I ask the witnesses to forward all of those letters to the committee. I make that request because it would be good to get a sense of the scale of what is going on. I am sure that the Department of Health will be delighted that I have asked for those letters. Let us tease this out a little. If I am wrong here, just stop me. Each year negotiations start in respect of the provision of the contract-----