Professor John FitzGerald:

The question was about hypothecation. I think it probably would be a good idea to put it all together rather than simply state it refers to the increase, because that is too complicated to explain to people. If I was the Minister, I would indicate the full amount of revenue and attribute some of the increases in social welfare to it. I would handle it in that way. That is an issue for the political system rather than for the council, but it could be a good option.

Industry is important. In Ireland 8% of emissions comes from manufacturing. If we add in the electricity consumed, it takes us to a figure of approximately 15%. People talk about taxing industry but one third of emissions come from agriculture and 15% of emissions come from households. The bulk of transport emissions come from households. If we are going to change, it is a question of "We, the people of Ireland". However, in terms of industry, the council has been concerned about the incentives for industry. The bulk of industrial emissions are handled within the EU emissions trading scheme. The EU ETS has produced a price that is too low.

The French Government proposed a carbon price floor which would guarantee a high and rising price, in the absence of the EU emissions trading scheme, ETS, working. Interestingly, the British are the leaders in this and have already done it. Last year the French invited the Dutch and the British Governments to join a coalition in north-western Europe with Germany in doing it. We advocated the Irish Government joining this potential coalition. It is unlikely to happen unless the German Government buys into it. If it does, and we published research in November on why it would be a good idea, it would drive out coal not just here - we are going to close our coal operations anyway - but in north-western Europe. It is already closing coal in Britain. It would be better if the EU's ETS worked better than it does currently because for the rest of industry which is covered by it, the incentives are not high enough to make them change. The problem is that this is not something which is in the remit of the Irish Government. However, the Irish Government has been advocating a much tighter approach at European level. One problem is the fact that the Polish Government is totally opposed to it because of coal mining in that country. The German Government has not bought into the French idea on a carbon price floor so far but the recent election and the changes in the political composition in Germany could see a change. If Germany changes, Ireland should join the coalition, which would raise the price of electricity. The modelling which we have done shows that it would not have a dramatic effect on consumers but it would affect the industrial sector. The industrial sector, that is, big firms are not paying enough and the price should rise. There is a mechanism available to raise the price for some of them but it is up to the EU ETS to raise it for all of them. Even if that happened, the vast bulk of emissions are the responsibility of the people of Ireland, including farmers, householders and so on.