Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for the presentation. I have raised this matter on a few occasions and requested that it be dealt with by the committee. My county has unfortunately had a good few examples of the ill treatment of horses. I would put horses and dogs in the one category in that regard. We have seen horses been driven in harness to the point of collapse, pulling loads inappropriate for their size. In Knocklofty the winter before last we had starvation issues on lands that were in public ownership. Thankfully, this winter came extremely mild. We would have had a lot more issues this winter if it had been in any way wet or harsh.

There was mention of horses in urban areas. There are probably two classes of ownership here. We have horses in urban areas where a person has one or two horses under his or her care. However, we also have people with herds of horses. There might not be many such people but they are there. They are using public lands or land belonging to semi-State companies to graze these animals. They are in it for profit. They are not keeping those horses to lose money. Mr. Blake was talking about ring-fencing accessibility for horses to the food chain. If horses are not microchipped, how can we be sure they are not entering the food chain? I have heard reports that a significant number of horses belonging to these gentlemen are making their way across the Border and to abattoirs in different countries. What percentage of the horses that have been seized and euthanised were microchipped? I am a farmer. We have very strict regulations. Animals have to be tagged within 14 days of birth. A significant number of horses are not microchipped and there does not seem to be any focus on improving the situation. Until we have that kind of traceability, how can we be confident about the controls we have over them?

There was talk of better education about the welfare of animals. That is extremely important. The message has to be gotten across to people that ownership of animals comes with responsibility. There also has to be respect, especially in housing estates. One of the speakers asked if it is appropriate to have these animals in urban housing estates. One would wonder. Green areas there are for recreation, not for residents to use for grazing their horse or a number of horses. I was in a town in my county recently and the youth soccer team was going playing a match in the field beside their estate. Before they could play their match, the first job was that three or four men had to go around with shovels taking the horse manure off the field. That should not be the case with a public amenity like a soccer field. It is there for the youth of the town or whoever wants to use it. It is not a grazing ground for some residents' horses. On approaches to towns, we see horses tied in a narrow space grazing on lay-bys where access to water and so on would be very questionable. There are definitely too many horses being kept by people who are not landowners. They do not have the resources to feed these animals, especially in winter time. Many of the horses are being kept on land illegally. The vast majority are unidentifiable as they are not microchipped or registered and do not have horse passports.

I do not know if my county is unique in having all these incidents. We had another case about three or four months ago where a young girl crashed into a horse late at night. She is in the Mater since the accident waiting to go to Dún Laoghaire for rehab. Unfortunately, the poor young lady is paralysed from the neck down; that looks to be her future. She has no one to claim against. No one owns the horse when something like this happens. The horse had strayed onto the road. Some people feel that owning an animal is part of their culture. We are not debarring anyone from keeping animals but responsibility comes with it. People have to have the resources to look after animals and they have to have respect for other people living in their locality.

I will go back to the people who have these large herds of horses. Bord na Móna is the most guilty party in my county. Many horses are grazing on Bord na Móna land. The men who are grazing those horses are commercial individuals. They are definitely not keeping them to lose money. The horses are being fattened on that land and they are moving somewhere. That needs to be investigated. We have the microchipping of horses regulations of 2016 but I have serious concerns that they are not being enforced. Until we enforce them, it is going to be very hard to get on top of this issue. When incidents come to me and we report them, as regards horses being seized and taken to the pound, I have no complaints whatsoever. It is a very expensive way of dealing with the problem, however. As was said in one of the presentations, according to the legislation the Department should be covering the cost but, at best, the cost is now divided 50-50 between the county councils and the Department. State agencies have a responsibility to manage their land stocks. Horses that are grazing illegally should be removed. These lands could be managed better. The HSE has the guts of 300 acres of land in Clonmel. That land should be given to a tillage man, in my view, so that it would be in a crop and there would be a serious responsibility there.

A herd of horses would not be allowed to traipse across it so easily then. There is a responsibility on State agencies to ensure their lands are not being illegally occupied. Last year, pictures appeared on Facebook of a horse with a broken leg that was tied to a gate near Newport and left to die. Again, nobody could be held responsible because there was no microchip in the horse.

Dogs are another issue. We have a problem with lurchers. Gangs of people from different areas hold sports with lurchers. Competitions are held over how many hares a lurcher can kill in a day. Groups of people will follow eight, nine, ten or 12 lurchers. Bets are placed on this illegal hunting. The Garda is finding it very hard to impound these dogs. The legislation around the seizure of dogs definitely needs to be improved. When the authorities come upon these gangs, it is very hard to have all the personnel required to seize dogs. This can happen on a Sunday afternoon but the dog warden and the members of the Garda must be in place. It can be extremely difficult to have all the i's dotted and the t's crossed. Legislation must be strengthened in order that dogs can be seized immediately when people trespass on land for illegal hunting

I want to ask three questions. The first concerns microchipping. Is a plan in place to microchip the vast majority of horses? Really there should be 100% compliance. There is no place for any leniency when dealing with bovines. Is the legislation regarding dogs and horses strong enough to allow the Department and county councils to do what they want to do? Are there enough resources to control the issue? When I have contacted the authorities on specific cases the response has been very good but I know of people in my county who are being intimidated by people with large numbers of horses. That situation should not be allowed to continue.