Michael D'Arcy (Wexford, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I have heard this position being presented before, that not-for-profit insurance companies are the way forward. However, those companies would be obliged to adhere to the same Solvency II rules as a for-profit company. They would have to adhere to the same EU directives on insurance and capitalisation as a for-profit company. While the figures look very rosy, the issue is that they are only profitable for motor insurance. The employer's liability, EL, and the public liability, PL, side are loss making and have been loss making for five or six years. I will give the Deputy the figures on this. The liability insurers made underwritings of loss outside of motor insurance in 2017 of €46.9 million. That is the liability and what they lost to underwrite the EL and PL side of insurance. There is not much profit there.

The Deputy is asking to open the State up potentially to making losses in that sector. It is something that is not the right direction. We have the right pathway. The Deputy has commended all of us on the work we are doing on this. I try to be fair to all Members of both Houses and the help and support on this is total. Nobody is trying to implement an ideology or to be political. We are all trying to put in place a better sector so that businesses can get a fair premium, stay trading and employ people for the benefit to society that brings. There is a profit on motor insurance but there is no profit on the liability side and we cannot just ignore that this is the case. The €227 million profit from 2017 is broken down into a €126 million overall profit. Motor profit might be more than that but the public liability is removed out of it because it is in a loss and there is a €100 million profit from investments. Those are the figures.

The Deputy's line to me is effectively to keep the spotlight on the insurance companies, and I will do that. The figures we have to date are for almost €200 million in profit from three companies in 2018. The profits are up again from 2017. I can only assume that for the other five major companies which have to report, the figures will also be increased. I do not want profiteering in the insurance sector. I want companies to be profitable, because if they are profitable, they stay, they underwrite accordingly, they underwrite well, and they treat their clients properly.

I am not sure if the Deputy has heard me make the point that on too many occasions I have had people with me who have been contracted with an insurance company for years or decades and then suddenly, because the risk appetite is not there or it just suits the insurance companies to exit, it leaves. To me, that is an appalling treatment of somebody that a company has been contracted with for years or decades. That is wrong, it does it because it suits it, and that is because the insurance company potentially is reducing its risk appetite because it is easier to do so than to stay in the sector. I will keep the hard line to them, as I know the Deputy will when they come in here.