Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I agree with Deputy Catherine Martin. This committee has uncovered an illegality that is ongoing. We need to hold further public hearings. I will be suggesting that Mr. Hislop, the chief inspector, comes in. We need to bring back Ms Mary Byrne and her colleagues as well because not only has the Department been deaf to this but it has been warned. It was specifically stated by Ms Byrne today that in 2012 and 2016, the Department was warned about this. Clearly, it has done nothing except issue the legal position, which is that it is not acceptable. The Department has stated that clearly on the record on every occasion. In fairness to Ms Cregg, who is relatively new in this role, she took the hardest line on this issue. She takes the view that it should simply not be happening at all. In practice, that is not what is happening in schools. Children are being denied their legal and constitutional rights on a daily basis. By the way, if anyone is watching - I imagine there are people watching - my advice is to ask for the decision in writing from principals. Oftentimes, according to colleagues throughout the country, when a parent asks for an announcement in writing of the reduced hours, it simply does not happen. It is not acceptable that parents are getting telephone calls.

We need to keep on this because there are two sides to it. The first is that this should not happen. The second is that to prevent it from happening, we need the resources to be put in place.

I have great respect for the Ombudsman for Children but I do not think he has hit the nail on the head on this issue. I believe this is an illegality and it must stop. A harder line from the Ombudsman for Children would be helpful. Dr. Muldoon has been clear but he has not been as clear as the Department or the National Council for Special Education. The Ombudsman for Children is an independent officer so it is not my job to tell him his role. However, if the Department is saying this should not happen at all except where there is illness and we know that it is happening from the groups, then I would certainly encourage the Ombudsman for Children to take a fresh look at this. The committee needs to hold further public hearings on this to get to the bottom of it. The resources issue is obviously the big elephant in the room but the Constitution provides guarantees. The only right that encompasses resources in the Constitution is the right to primary education, and second level education follows from that. The right to primary education implies resources. There is nothing else in the Constitution. There is no right to healthcare in the Constitution but there is a right to education. I accept the point made about cuts for Travellers. We in the committee hear that point. The point is not aired all the time but we hear about resources for children with special needs all the time and we hear about the DEIS system. This is an illegality and I believe we should perhaps ask the Oireachtas law service to look at this from a legal point of view. We should get in the chief inspector, the Minister and the NCSE to go through in more detail the advice given. If that could be provided to us, it would be useful. Ms Byrne said that she was advised on the matter in 2012 and 2016 and I would be interested to hear more about that.