Mr. Daniel Keohane:

Building on what Ms O'Connell said, I reiterate the point that having an all-of-Ireland approach to the debate on the future of Europe should be the basic principle. I personally would love if the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade could be doubled in size as quickly as possible. We have very small diplomatic capacity, but, thankfully, we manage to have diplomats in every EU member state and most member states of the Council of Europe. Not every EU member state has this. I understand we are to open an embassy in Kiev next year, or perhaps sooner. We must maintain that capacity which we need to increase to have a presence in all member states. All member states are our partners, not only France and Germany. Looking beyond what the Government could do, organisations such as ours which have EU and Europe-wide networks are invaluable, whether they are business, trade union, civil society or sectoral networks. To use the seanfhocal, an té nach bhfuil láidir ní foláir dó a bheith glic. The small or weak man has to be clever. We have to be clever in how we think about where we put our resources. I am not imagining that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade will be doubled in size by next year, but I hope it will have more resources in the next decade.

I made the point about Portugal and Denmark deliberately to encourage people to think hard about this issue because all of the other 24 member states will want to talk to Paris and Berlin. Germany has more neighbours than my beloved County Meath. It has a lot of neighbours. That is a lot of people to talk to and try to keep happy. The same applies to France. Territorially, we are relatively isolated. In that respect, Ireland is the Aran Islands, but if it is not possible to talk to the main person, one talks to their adviser or best friend. France and Germany's best friends are already pretty busy, but the Netherlands is an obvious place. Sweden is also an obvious place as it is at the heart of Nordic co-operation. The Netherlands is at the heart of Benelux co-operation. It is also leading the Hanseatic League. Suddenly one ends up with Denmark and Portugal which may get less love from their neighbours. Spain does not talk to Portugal as much as it probably should. Sweden does not talk to Denmark as much as it probably should. Neither does the Netherlands. Why, therefore, do we not talk to them? Our only natural allies are Malta and Cyprus. I want to keep them on our side as it were, but I would also like us to build more of an Irish network.

To respond to Deputy Haughey's great question about the European Parliament, the next European Parliament will be very complicated. The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe, ALDE, which includes Fianna Fáil and the Alliance Party in Northern Ireland is being reconfigured with the accession of President Macron's Renaissance group. Even the Socialist Party of Portuguese Prime Minister Costa is thinking about joining it. As a group, the number of Liberals went up, as did the numbers of Greens, including the numbers of Irish and German Greens. The numbers in the centre left Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats and the centre right European People's Party groups went down slightly. The overall number in the block of moderates went down slightly, from approximately 526 to 506, but I may be wrong on the precise figures. However, the drop was very slight. The extremes did not gain much, but the European Parliament will be more fragmented than it was precisely because those in the centre left and centre right lost seats to the Liberals and the Greens.

We can play with this in all sorts of ways, but it is worth remembering that political groups in the European Parliament are alliances of national parties, not full-blown political parties. Deputy Haughey knows this better than I do. They do not always vote together in the same way. I am not sure politicians in Fine Gael always agree with the German Christian Democrats on tax, for instance, which is fine. I do not know whether Fianna Fáil MEPs like Barry Andrews will agree with President Macron's party, which is fine too. That is the way it should be. Ultimately, all of these MEPs are independent or represent national parties. That fact should not be overlooked.

Perhaps the bigger story is how the far left or united left group which includes Sinn Féin, independent MEP Luke 'Ming' Flanagan, Podemos and Syriza lost some seats. Perhaps Deputy Clare Daly might join this group. There is about to be a general election in Greece. It is interesting that this group which describes itself as Eurocritical, if I understood the Sinn Féin MEP candidates correctly, lost some seats. The Eurosceptic centre-right conservative and reformist group which includes the Polish Law and Justice party and the UK Conservatives, both of which are in government in their respective countries, also lost seats. What is going on? The problem is that far-right nationalists gained seats, mainly because of Matteo Salvini's Lega Nord party. Marine Le Pen's National Rally party stayed static on 23 seats, if I remember correctly. The Lega Nord party went from five seats to 28. I think that was the final figure. Those on the far right gained. The Brexit Party was in talks with those on the far right.

As members will be aware, the overall size of the European Parliament will be reduced. Ireland and other countries will gain seats. In a nutshell, it will be more complicated. I know that is not a useful answer, but it is the simplest one. The easiest way to answer the question is to say we need to see beyond the groups. The good news is that the moderate centre in European politics has held. We remember that during the last elections and the Brexit referendum in 2016 it sounded like the Dutch were thinking about a Nexit and that Marine Le Pen might push for a Frexit. All of this was being spoken about as recently as 2017, but the sceptics have become less sceptical since Brexit. Hardly anyone in the Netherlands is calling for a Nexit and not even Marine Le Pen is calling for a Frexit. Even though Matteo Salvini hates the bond markets, he is not calling for an exit from the euro. That tells us everything we need to know.