Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I should explain to the witnesses the comings and goings of members. During the course of the debate, the Seanad is sitting and votes arise. They have to go to vote. Otherwise a problem arises.

I note Ms O'Connell has another paragraph or two to divulge to us. I note the way the debate has been moving in recent weeks in Europe and there being a quid pro quofor one type of support or another. I am not sure that is the right way to go. Europe had a test with the economic crash, and there is a debate as to whether Germany went the right way. It should not be forgotten that Germany has a history of quantitative easing and it is not a happy one. It was obviously reluctant to go in that direction again. Not everybody understands that but it is a fact of life.

The most important aspect of recent events is that all the European 27 member states have stood together. My belief is that they have done so because they recognise the writing on the wall. Do we want a Europe in the future or do we want a disjointed Europe, a two-speed Europe or a broken-up Europe? Having listened to the comments of some who say they want freedom from Europe, I ask what is freedom? Can we define freedom? What is our state of mind when it comes to determining it? One person's freedom might be another person's incarceration. We need to know that we have some experience ourselves in those areas as well.

I believe we have responsibility for matters such as taxation and security, and we have no difficulty debating that. The fact of life is that, geographically, we are not in the centre of Europe and we are at a disadvantage. This will be particularly the case in the aftermath of Brexit. We are on the fringe. The countries on the fringe or on the outer rim, as in the analogy of the wheel that I have used previously, feel the draught first and the heat last. We need to learn from that. We can learn a lot from European history, the way things have happened, and the way things can lead in the future. All we need is recognition. We need to proceed in a unified fashion, supporting each other as opposed to poking the bricks out of the wall, so to speak, to improve the circumference of the wheel. It has not always worked.