Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach.

Earlier this week Cathal Berry, who I am told is in attendance in the audience, did a tremendously brave thing for someone who has left the Defence Forces when he spoke up for them. One would not usually expect what he said from a former member. I have met quite a number of members in recent years at RACO conferences I have attended or in my work as a defence spokesperson for my Party. Each and every one has expressed a frustration that came out in the words that were issued by Cathal Berry during the week, when he talked about the Department's treating of members with contempt and of the Defence Forces being dismantled and demoralised. This also came across in the comments of the witnesses today. It is a frustration I can understand. Commandant King stated:

The Department’s approach to representation has been divisive, dismissive and, sometimes, subversive. This has led to an adversarial and dysfunctional industrial relations climate.

That is a very serious charge, which Commandant King has backed up in chapter and verse which is the key part, even in his last comment where he referred to the last review of pay conditions in the Defence Forces taking place in 1990.

One question he put to us earlier was to ask who was batting for the Defence Forces. I know from attending this meeting that each and every one of us has the interests of the Defence Forces at heart, are trying to help and are batting for the Defence Forces. I hope that we will be able to assist and that this appearance by the witnesses before the committee today will get the coverage it deserves and will add to the sense of crisis. I have been talking to people concerned and some of the figures outlined by Commandant King are very stark. He said that 87% of the Defence Forces earn well below the public sector wage. In our briefing from the Department of Defence, we were given a different take on that. Commandant King's comment on this take was something similar to his reference to this dismissive attitude, whereby somebody has to be the low-paid. The Department of Defence in a briefing stated, with reference to the starting pay details, the pay compared with other jobs with similar entry-level criteria in the public service.

That fails to understand Commandant King's final point regarding the uniqueness of the Defence Forces. It is quite clear and stark. Personnel cannot do overtime, they are on 24-hour call and he listed the duties. It is not a normal job and is not similar to any other job in the public service, albeit perhaps, An Garda Síochána, but gardaí can do overtime. That is key.

In this day and age, the retirement age in a world where people are living longer and in the main, people are fitter, has increased. I wish I was as fit as half of the officers who are retiring from the Defence Forces, aged 47 or 52 in this day and age. Somebody needs to get real.

When there is a crisis, action is needed. Commandant King mentioned the White Paper. My big criticism of the White Paper was that there were no timelines. Whatever about having 88 particular actions, unless one has timelines, it is difficult to manage so that feeds into the system.

It was mentioned how low the number of officers has fallen to in some sections of the Defence Forces. The Department of Defence told us that there are 45 fewer officers in the Air Corps. The establishment figure is 166 but there are only 141 in the Air Corps. That is very stark. We know the consequences of that. I know from dealing with a number of personnel that the stress levels are increasing due to the double and treble jobbing of officers. The briefing material also highlights that sick leave in the Defence Force is increasing. If somebody is working two and three jobs, something has to give. I am concerned that the officer level of the ordnance section is at 16% -----