Mr. Justice Bryan McMahon:

The Senator asked about the involvement of private firms and overseas companies in direct provision and a lack of transparency regarding their profits. Once the State makes the decision not to be directly responsible for provision and engages outside commercial bodies to provide the premises and run the centres, there is then the problem that the operators have to be paid. There should always be transparency as to financial transactions in these matters. I do not know how accurate it is to say that very little is known in this regard. I understand the figures are available in general but I am not privy to any information about profits. There is a certain amount of confidentiality in these transactions. I am not sure there is the degree of secrecy to which the Senator alluded but once the job is outsourced, it is inevitable that a commercial deal must be done. Private operators will not take on the job unless they are getting a reasonable profit out of it, although there is a question as to what is reasonable and not reasonable. The Senator is suggesting that these operators are exploiting the opportunity. That is a value judgment and I do not know whether it is correct. There are a lot of people looking into the matter and I suspect the level of profit-making is less than people might think. However, it is relevant to ask whether we are getting the best value for money under the existing system or if we would be better off were the State to be directly involved in provision. In the context of the accommodation crisis we are experiencing, I have suggested that it might be time for the State to provide more centres because the likelihood of getting commercial premises is shrinking. That is the route we might have to go and it would offer the benefit, one hopes, of ensuring better control on the part of the State. It should at least allow us to ensure the job is done transparently.

I have no opinion as to the likelihood of legal action. I am a retired High Court judge and have ceased to think like a lawyer. I certainly am not giving advice in this matter. The courts are always open to individuals in this country, as we have seen in respect of the right to work. Individuals may always plead their case as far as the Supreme Court and obtain a judgment. I cannot say whether an argument could be mounted similar to that which was made in respect of residential institutions. From that point of view, however, the improvements must be welcomed.