Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for coming in today to enlighten us on this situation. To put a little bit of context to this, we have received correspondence and some lobbying from various organisations and individuals on the issue of corporate ownership. People fear that it will become similar to the situation with Boots pharmacies or a fast food type of situation where a whole lot of veterinary practices around the country will be owned by a company which would primarily be interested in profit and would probably concentrate on the aspects of veterinary practice which are most profitable and leave the others. From the committee's perspective in looking after the interests of farmers and the primary producer, we are talking about the larger animals such as when a cow is calving or a sheep is out at night that needs assistance and a vet cannot be got. In many areas of rural Ireland there is already a problem with that and if we went down the route that is feared with the corporate ownership creeping into the situation, there would be great fears for many people in the farming community that this would happen.

I want to ask a few questions on that. Ms Muldoon outlined in her opening statement that one of the Veterinary Council of Ireland's key responsibilities is to ensure that duties are performed in accordance with prescribed codes of professional conduct and ethics. In the context of vets who are employees of a company which is not the vet, I would like to get detail on how the council expects to be able to make sure that happens, to make sure the control is there and how the council would find that.

In referring to the background, Ms Muldoon said that "Historically, section 54(2) of the Veterinary Practitioners Act 2005, was interpreted to prevent a body corporate from owning a veterinary practice," but that legal advice told the council otherwise. When was that and at what stage was that advice received? Later on Ms Muldoon stated that the council went into a consultation process and said the Veterinary Council of Ireland has benefitted from legal advice on the matter. I assume that is separate legal advice since then. Can we get the details of that legal advice? What is the situation with that?

On the practices that have already been bought out by companies, and I understand that some companies from Britain have come here and bought practices, how many of them have they bought? Is that vision of chains of practices starting to develop? Are they focusing on a particular type of practice? My understanding is they are focusing on the small animals and equine practices and that they are not as interested in the other practices that would be more general for the farming community out there. The fear that people have is that if that will be the focus and if a veterinary practice or partnership sells off a portion of its practice to a company, it is selling off the portion that is most profitable and the other part of it that is not so profitable will end up going into decline. Therefore, we will see a situation where the farming community, which needs a service, which deserves a service and for which the Veterinary Council of Ireland is responsible for ensuring that a service is provided, will see that slip.

On the issue of partnerships versus limited companies, my understanding is that many veterinary practices became limited companies years ago. For the last 20 years many of them have been limited companies. There is nothing wrong with that and that has gone on, and yet the Veterinary Council of Ireland is saying that section 54(2) of the Veterinary Practitioners Act 2005 prevented it from happening or was interpreted in a way that prevented it from happening. I do not get that. If, until recently, the Veterinary Council of Ireland thought there could not be companies then why were there companies? That is a simple question.

Nobody has a problem with a vet or a number of vets setting up a limited company.

The issue is that if a group of investors came together, set up a company, decided to buy a couple of veterinary practices and expand the company further, they will not have any skin in the game in that they will have no concern for anything other than profit. That is a matter of concern.

An associated matter that concerns me, although it is slightly different, is that people have told me it is difficult to find vets who are interested in working with the farming community. One of the big issues is that many of the vets who qualify are interested only in small-animal practice rather than the tougher and less profitable aspects. What can be done to ensure that vets will work with the farming community?

I turn to the number of vets qualifying in Ireland. I have teenage children who attend college. Through them and their friends, I hear what is going on. One chap who lives not far from me had his heart set on being a vet but he was 25 points short on his leaving certificate and there was no hope. His family was not wealthy enough to send him to Budapest to train. That problem needs to be addressed. In many other countries, people studying other disciplines can progress to train in veterinary college and, while there may be an element of that in Ireland, there is limited scope for it to happen. Could access be made more open? Many people who take courses in agricultural colleges have a keen interest in veterinary medicine and would probably make excellent vets, not least because they come from an agricultural background. They find veterinary medicine is closed off to them, however, because of the current system. Will our guests comment on that?

The Veterinary Council pointed out that a change had been made to the code of professional conduct. Did some members of the board have a conflict of interest, or were such conflicts ever declared, given that they were in the process of selling their practices to bodies corporate while they were working on the code?