Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 9 May 2019

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government

Local Authority Performance Indictor Report: National Oversight and Audit Commission

Mr. Michael McCarthy:

I thank the Deputy. I want to deal with the issue regarding the reports and I will then deal specifically with the issue of a Committee of Public Accounts-style audit process, and with the question of planning issues and allegations. Ms Maloney will deal with the quality of replies and data collection.

It is a very good exercise that we are in front of the joint committee and I had this discussion with Senator Boyhan. NOAC has a particular challenge to raise the profile of what we are doing. There is a very good board and a very good mix of skillsets. Our subgroup on performance indicators is chaired by Ms Maloney and it has burned the midnight oil in putting in the effort to collate the data to present in the reports. With regard to the Deputy's point on the upcoming 2018 report, I will contact the secretariat and let the Deputy know what chronological stage that is at, so he can tie that in with another visit by NOAC to the joint committee. It is good that we are having a conversation. Nonetheless, I take his point on the 2017 report, given we are now in quarter 2 of 2019.

A Committee of Public Accounts-style audit system reflects a number of viewpoints held by those of us in NOAC and those outside it. I spoke about the commission's functions in my opening statement. It is very much about scrutinising and the oversight role and there is no direct role in regard to sanctions. We take a very proactive approach. In terms of visits to local authorities, we find out what they are doing well. We know from similar visits that other local authorities are not doing as well and we balance that information in the mix. Those reports become embedded in the local authorities and we put them up on the website and send them to the local authorities. This ties in to the challenge we have in terms of our own profile. The Deputy's question has a lot of merit, in particular in regard to a forum with a Committee of Public Accounts-type focus on that aspect of local authorities and the chief executive's role.

In many ways, NOAC was born out of that kind of discussion in the 2013-14 period. I had a discussion with the Minister on how we can progress that. We are at an embryonic stage in terms of a forum that can meet those demands and requirements. For example, something along the lines of the Policing Authority, which has public sittings that are televised and online, and having that element of oversight and transparency, would be good for the commission and it would also be good in terms of showing the outside world the discussions we are having with the chief executives. While that is at a conversational stage for the moment, it ties in with other issues and reflects the views of a number of people. There was a discussion in the Seanad last November where the prospect of such a forum was raised and, as a result, I had a discussion with the Minister along those lines.

We do not have a role in regard to sanctions or allegations. Suffice to say that the Office of the Planning Regulator has been established in recent times. I do not even profess to know whether they came within remit role of that office but, again, it is another layer of accountability by which people can pursue that. I share the Deputy's frustrations. I was that soldier. A Deputy puts down a parliamentary question looking for information and is trying to collate the data, but when a reply comes in there is still significant work to be done. NOAC is very open in terms of its interaction with the joint committee to provide that element of reporting. A finished report is a very important piece of work for someone like the Deputy who is building that knowledge in that sector and across local authorities. We work in conjunction with other stakeholders in collating and compiling that data. We want to be sure this is as widely available and widely read as possible. As members will be aware, people put a huge effort into putting together a piece of work and it is almost dismissed or ignored, which can be quite frustrating. With regard to the 2018 report, we will get a note back to the secretariat to give the committee an idea of the chronological stage we are currently at, so we can tie that in with a visit to the joint committee to discuss the report in a timely manner.

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