Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

In fairness separate legislation, which we have also published, with the Focus Ireland amendment would deal with that.

I wish to put three questions together. Some other solutions are out there. I questioned the Central Bank and AIB, for example, about sales to non-profit organisations rather than to vultures at a discount. We now know of 52% across the €24 billion portfolio that so far has been sold. As Mr. Hall is the CEO of one of those non-profit organisations, I would be interested in his views on whether that is a real possibility.

I am very conscious of where this is going. Many people are worried. I have been stopped on the street by people who work in the banks on some of the funds. They are really annoyed that this Bill is before the committee and has already got the support of the Dáil. Everything has been thrown at it and that is fair enough. This is a take-your-side moment.

There are two big issues. One is the constitutionality argument that the Government put forward and the other is the money-message issue. We have a preliminary view that a money message is not required and therefore the Government would not be able to block it. I believe we have seen an abuse of the money-message system to block legislation; although we have had a new procedure here in recent months. I am not afraid to consider a legal challenge if one was warranted in the event that a money message is used to block this Bill.

On the constitutionality of the Bill, I agree with the FLAC submission. When we limit property rights, there is always an issue of whether it affects the right within the Constitution. However, we know that right within the Constitution is subject to certain restrictions relating to public good and so on. As there is always a question of constitutionality, I got legal counsel's opinion when we drafted the Bill. I agree with FLAC's point in that only the courts can decide. I took the Government and the Attorney General to court and won when they tried to deny us the right to hold a by-election in Donegal. I understand the Attorney General can be wrong on occasions.

The Irish Mortgage Holders Association's submission states that the Department of Finance had advice from the Attorney General that the Bill was unconstitutional. Under further questioning from me, I got a letter from the Department of Finance on that stating that the Attorney General had not said the Bill was unconstitutional. The Attorney General stated that there are issues that may lead to issues of constitutionality, which is obvious. That question would need to be answered in respect of anything that restricts property rights.

We frequently introduce legislation that affects contracts, such as employment law contracts. Notwithstanding the argument over the statutory nature of the code of conduct on mortgage arrears, does that not in a way restrict the contract that exists between a bank and a borrower in terms of its automatic right to repossess, which is in the contract? We were even told the change to the Personal Insolvency Act, which allows the courts to look at the issue of the veto, was not possible and would be unconstitutional. It is possible for it to impact and affect existing contracts, but it has to be careful, limited and subject to proportionality, which I would argue this is.

I do not know if the witnesses have a view on the money message. The Department of Finance's submission is its big ticket item; if it can convince the Houses of the Oireachtas, it will kill the Bill. It claims that if this goes through, the Department of Finance and the Central Bank will need extra staff. This is just farcical in my view. It is just bizarre that prohibiting banks from selling to a vulture fund unless they receive consent would require additional staff in the Department of Finance or the Central Bank. I ask for the witnesses' views on this. The committee has not dealt with it and I know we will need a further view on the money message from those in the Houses of the Oireachtas who will give that.