Mr. David Hall:

It is slightly worse than the Deputy has presented, in that the official line is not just that there is no problem. Rather, the official line is that it is better to be in the hands of a vulture, which is the most concerning part. In other jurisdictions, cults say that. The invitation was issued to the Chairman in order that he could see the engagement and the length of time of the reply. When Permanent TSB and Pepper appeared before the committee, they were asked about Glenbeigh and about who owns it, which led to the most bizarre exchange. In the engagement from the servicing agents to seek consent from the vulture fund as to what happens next, we are now at the stage where our actions answer the Deputy's question. We are revising our internal structures to consider putting all clients, customers and vulture funds through the insolvency regime. We are wasting our time and customers' time engaging with vulture funds over restructures because they simply do not do them.

The most vulnerable cohort of people are eligible for social housing and the mortgage-to-rent scheme. There is a bizarre situation where people try to apply logic without evidence, where they believe that a vulture fund bought the loan at a discount. There are dozens of examples of such cases, before the sale of customers of Ulster Bank and Permanent TSB. To be fair to Permanent TSB, we negotiated a discount with those properties to make them work, but the discount does not follow to start and, therefore, those customers will not be eligible for mortgage-to-rent. It is factually incorrect to say vulture funds are easy and good to deal with. The insolvency legislation is the number one tool to fight these vultures in the coming months and years. It is torturous for our customers, staff and many advisers throughout the country who are trying to engage through a credit servicing firm. Saying it is okay is worse than just misleading people; it is far from okay. Giving the impression that everything is okay, or that one could actually be better off dealing with a company that has bought one's loan more cheaply, is the most bizarre and factually incorrect statement for official representatives, not only politicians but also departmental officials, to make. One of those officials appeared before the committee and said they were attending to speak truth to power. It was embarrassing. They need to understand the truth before they can speak it. The public commentary of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance is void in this regard. At Christmas, the Taoiseach indicated vultures are good and fine and the Minister of State, Deputy D'Arcy, said the same. While the Taoiseach qualified his comment the following day by saying it was based on the information provided to the Government, he should have a look at the evidence and the truth because if he did, the Bill would be a no-brainer.