Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I think the Chairman was wrong in that regard. He stated there may have been criminality, which is true, but the committee's line authority in this instance is the Accounting Officer of the Prison Service. That is the equivalent of a Secretary General in this matter.

The Chairman's actions have given abdication to the people who respond to us to look into matters. It may well be there are no issues of criminality. It was perfectly reasonable to put to the Accounting Officer if he or the Prison Service are aware of A, B, C, D, E, F and G and if not, can they carry out the necessary inquiries. That was what was on each of my questions, as this will show.

The other implication of what the Chairman is saying is that if it is case that it may end up with criminality being highlighted as a result of some of these questions, that means that in effect he is narrowing the scope of this committee. What happens if we want to ask questions under the Competition Act, the Criminal Justice Act, the Companies Act, the Health and Safety Act or the Tax Acts, all of which could have implications in criminality?

What happened last week was perfectly within the Chairman’s remit. As I said, I hate to be in any sort of conflict with the Chair. However, my entitlement as a committee member to put questions to an Accounting Officer was effectively removed. It is there in writing three times last week. It is nothing personal, Chairman. We are best friends outside the ring. You are an excellent Chair. However, that totally disenfranchised my position last week.

The Chairman said the content was perfectly fine. He said the rules were not broken but then you decided that, although I am full member of the Committee of Public Accounts, the Secretary General and Accounting Officer relevant to this area would not answer these questions. Instead, we will kick it out to the Garda in the Phoenix Park. I agree it should carry out its investigations as well. However, to suggest the Department of Justice and Equality does not have a role is incredible.

If this were to stand as a precedent, we would not be allowed to ask questions in here. There is the potential for criminality in many of the issues discussed here and in many of the questions put. Again, I made no accusations against individuals, anybody identifiable or anything like that. Process, procedures, institutions and the need prudence demands for investigations to be carried out are fine. If the Chairman's answer stands and, more particularly, if the transcript for last week stands, I have no other option but to petition the Committee on Procedure to make a ruling on this.