Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for her questions. On the issue of cervical cancer, it is something on which we are all united. We can effectively eradicate it. There are many diseases about which we cannot say this, but it is one we can eradicate. I used to refer to the huge progress made in Australia and New Zealand, but now I need only refer to Scotland, a much nearer neighbour. I was only reading last week about the huge progress it was making. We know how to do it. The one good thing to come out of all of this - we always want something good to come out it - is that it is now our national aim to eradicate cervical cancer within a generation. We know how to do it, namely, through HPV testing and vaccination and continuing to invest in screening. That is a very important point to make. I am very pleased that the Deputy acknowledged the progressive moves made by some of my predecessors in that regard. We were in opposition at the time and, with the benefit of hindsight, I think Mary Harney was given an awfully hard time, although perhaps that is just the way it goes when one is Minister for Health. However, if we actually look at some of the decisions she took, we owe her a huge debt of gratitude for the work she did in cancer care in the Governments of which she was a part. The decision she took on the cervical screening programme is one that has saved lives. When one is Minister for Health, one often takes a decision today and will only begins to see the positive impact in the following years. I hope some of the decisions we have taken collectively, be it in the Public Health (Alcohol) Act, on women's reproductive rights, the things we are going to do in the assisted human reproduction Bill or the extension of the HPV vaccine to boys, will, in time, when there will be a different Minister for Health sitting here, have had similar public health benefits. I wanted to acknowledge her contribution.

Deputy O'Connell again hit the nail on the head in saying there was an information vacuum in the CervicalCheck crisis. Understandably, women were worried. They were not worried irrationally. Nobody could have said, hand on heart, that the screening programme was safe. What do we do to try to provide that reassurance? We brought in a brilliant expert in Dr. Gabriel Scally who did a superb job. However, what do we do in the interim? What we do is support women in making decisions that they want to make for themselves on their personal health. They, not me, were making the decision to go to their GP because that is what anyone does when he or she is concerned about his or her health, as the Chairman knows as he is a GP. The question is, when a woman is sitting looking at her doctor, what can he or she do? He or she can do what he or she is meant to do, that is, provide factual information and try to reassure. In the case of many of the 110,000 women - pretty much the majority but at least 50% - this satisfied their concern and they decided they did not need a repeat smear test. In 57,000 cases the woman decided this in consultation with her GP and who the hell are we to second-guess that decision? How offensive is it to "mansplain" what went on in those consultations, or endeavour to suggest, as I heard someone say on the floor of the Dáil Chamber yesterday, that it was unnecessary? The woman had had a consultation with her doctor and decided, in the round, that having a repeat smear test was the appropriate thing to do. My only job was to fund it, which was the least we could do.

There is a point to be made about learning when there is a public health crisis. I have put up my hands in that regard and conceded that I made mistakes. Sadly, I am in a lonely place in that regard because many others have not done the same, despite Dr. Scally's findings about the frenzied political and media environment at the time. What do we do when there is a public health crisis in providing reassurance? The Chief Medical Officer showed what we should do. He showed huge leadership, went on national television and brought clinicians together. However, in my words - not his - it was a somewhat lonely place to be in. We need to look at what we will do the next time and there will be a next time when there will be another crisis in the public health service.

On the issue of vaccination, I am unapologetically pro-vaccine. Like the Deputy, I have very little time for misinformation and the nonsense spread about vaccination. It saves lives. Unfortunately, the misinformation on vaccines is not just an irritant, it is also costing lives. As the Deputy rightly said, it is costing the health of many children. Nonetheless, I need to set the matter in context. It is worth saying there is still a very good uptake rate under the child immunisation programme. We have a target of 95% this year. I think it was 92.5% last year. Therefore, the overwhelming majority of parents are deciding that they should vaccinate their kids. I was asked in recent weeks to look at what was being done in other countries in Europe and some parts of the United States where enrolment in school was being linked with vaccination. I have not definitively said that is what we must do, but Ireland should be part of that debate. There is a discussion happening across the European Union about what should be done in dealing with the issue of vaccination. If parents decide not to vaccinate their child, they will sending him or her unvaccinated to a school or creche where potentially he or she will spread illness. I intend to look at what other European countries are doing in that regard. I know that Italy and the state of New York made some changes recently. While the health committee has a very busy agenda, in due course it might like to hold hearings on how we can proactively use all levers, as a public service, to promote vaccination. As parents, there is a responsibility on us that is greater than our responsibility to our kids. There is also a responsibility to the children of others. Sending a child to school unvaccinated is extraordinarily irresponsible and dangerous. As I said, Ireland needs to be part of the debate that is happening across the European Union.