Mr. Kevin Kinsella:

I thank the members of the committee for their various questions and I will try to address some of them. I will lump some of them together. The first question concerned price issues. We tried to outline this very clearly in our submission and I hope members have had a good chance to look at it. The critical issue from a farmer's perspective is the income crisis in the sector. Income ultimately comprises two components, which are the price on one side and direct payments on the other side. They are both equally important. Very specific questions were asked about price, particularly around the area of competition, the price differential between Ireland and the UK and the European average. We have tried to gather as much data as we can for our submission. As some people have said, there is an absence of data in the area.

Looking at the average retail price in the United Kingdom, our biggest market, it is the equivalent of €8.90 per kilo. That is the average retail price, whether it is a steak, burger or round cut being sold. Of course, all beef does not sell at that price or through retail, although we can take it as a benchmark for the type of return in the market. We can then look at the farmer price, which has been consistently under €4 for a number of months now. If we had a fairer share of the ultimate consumer or retail price, the farmer would be in a better position and be able to get a higher price.

How could this be done? It comes back to this committee and to legislators, as well as the work being done on a European level, in the Dáil and in this committee. We ask that there be a strong focus on the farmer's share from the ultimate price. We must try to bring transparency into the facts and figures in this respect. There are some facts and figures available and we are working with an economist, Mr. Jim Power, to try to develop this beef price index along the lines of what is modelled on dairy area. It is about bringing more transparency and return there.

That takes me to an issue raised by Senator Conway-Walsh regarding lack of competition in the sector.

Our president, Mr. Healy, was very upfront on this in his presentation today, clearly requesting the members of this committee to call for and support the proposition we put forward for an investigation into competition or the lack of it in the sector. Let us undertake this investigation and put it to bed, either deal with it or take it off the table. We are very clear and specific on that point and we request that this would be part of this committee's ultimate conclusion, that it would deal with this issue. There is no point in asking farm organisations or farmers whether there is a cartel and whether they have the evidence. All the figures and all the evidence on this, in terms of looking at the prices and analysing them, are with the authorities that have the power to do that and the authorities that gather that information. In Ireland, that is the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which has all the data on all of the cattle killed and the price of every animal killed in this country for the past ten years. The Department has the data. The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, has the responsibility to ensure that we have a competitive market in this country. When we ask the CCPC about this area, the response is that it needs political direction on this issue and the only people who can give it political direction are the Minister, the Government and the joint committee members. It is in the hands of the joint committee to deal with the issue and resolve it to the benefit of the sector. It would be a very significant benefit if the issue could be dealt with in the sector.

On the issue of competition that Deputy McConalogue raised and the differential between the Irish price and the UK price, we are very specific on our figures and we have considered and analysed them. We have a detailed table in our report that shows that between 2000 and 2009, the average differential between Irish and UK prices was about 24 cent per kilo. Between 2010 and 2019, that differential had increased to 40 cent per kilo. Of course, margins have increased in that time, that is, for everybody except the farmer. One has to draw one's own conclusion about what is happening in terms of the retail and processor margin. From the farmers perspective, they rely on two things to try to bring some competition, first, they rely on the Minister and the Government of the day to ensure that they are selling their cattle into a competitive market. The Minister keeps telling us he has nothing to do with the price of the product. We feel differently and that there is an onus of responsibility on the Minister of the day to ensure there is a competitive market for Irish farmers to sell their cattle into. This is very different from what the Minister is saying. Second, in order to have a competitive market, a key ingredient is an active live export trade. That is proven statistically. We engaged a competition economist to look at this area and that was one of the conclusions he came to. We want a very strong competitive live export trade that can deliver increased competition for us in the trade and our president went through that in detail.

When one compares Irish prices and the EU average, that data is both used and somewhat abused at times. We need to dig into the data and analyse what we are talking about. First, we have predominantly steers and heifers. We are comparing the price of that meat to the average price for the meat from young bulls across the European Union when one looks at the average price. That is not comparing like with like. On balance, the meat from steers and heifers is a superior eaten product compared to the meat from young bulls. We should not be saying that if we are at or just below or just above the EU average price, we are doing very well. That is not the case, because we cannot be as competitive in terms of the productivity of those animals, steers versus young bulls. Second, we have to consider that in producing steers in place of young bulls, we are and should be capable of returning a price premium in the market for those type of products. That would lift us above the comparison between the price we get for our product and the EU average price.

In regard to the change to the milk quota, when that was being looked at at the time and the Food Wise 2025 proposals and the new growth targets were being put forward, the IFA raised the issues around the implications of the increased volumes of animals coming through the system and the increased volumes of beef and whether we had the markets to sell it into and whether we had the capacity to deal with it.

If one looks at the submissions the IFA made to Food Wise 2025 and at our budget submissions, we kept highlighting our concerns about the farm income situation, while driving on in terms of exports and volume growth. We certainly highlighted at the time that the Department was not dealing with the farm income situation. The IFA believes that there is a requirement to keep a balance in the numbers in terms of what we are capable of slaughtering and selling. That is why we see a strong live export trade as essential in terms of the calves, the weanlings and the store cattle.

Going back to the income of farmers with sucker cows, of course, we need a price premium for suckler beef and we made very specific proposals to Bord Bia, the Government and the meat processors. We hope we will see some progress in that regard in the next number of weeks and months.

We should never forget the role the direct payments play in terms of livestock farm incomes. If one goes back to the time when there were specific targeted payments, coupled payments on livestock, there has always been strong support for the livestock sector, because that is the way the market is geared, that is, that we can supply an abundant volume of quality beef at reasonable and affordable prices to consumers. If one goes back and analyses the system, out of the €1.3 billion in direct payments that go to Irish farmers, traditionally almost €900 million of that went to the beef and livestock sector, which is more than 77%. That was the way it was structured. On the dairy side, there was the milk quota and there were other protections on the other side. That is the way the supports went to the livestock sector. That has changed fundamentally in recent years in terms of the decoupling that took place and the move towards a per hectare payment. That needs to be assessed and analysed in the context of looking at the system and at what has happened to livestock farmers' incomes as we go forward. Part of the argument from an IFA perspective is that in order to maintain our valuable suckler cow herd - we most definitely must try to maintain the number of suckler cows for the reasons some previous speakers mentioned, such as the return they bring to the areas unsuitable for dairy or tillage such as down the western coast - we need to ensure we have a strong targeted direct payment for sucker cows. We propose a payment of €200 per cow and I was heartened to see the cross-party support, including from the Government side and in particular the Chairman, the night we visited the Dáil, where politician after politician rose to say that we need, at least, a targeted payment of €200 per cow. We need cross-party support on that issue and we need it to be a priority for the next budget in terms of trying to deliver on it. We ask that this committee strongly support that payment as we move forward.

We have appeared before the joint committee today as representatives of livestock farmers and we are looking for the support of members of this committee. We want the support of the various political representatives for the suckler payment of €200 per cow, which is vital to the Irish beef sector. We want the support of the committee for live export, as it is vital for competition. We want support for a fairer share of the consumer price to go back to the farmer, which is vital in order to make the product viable. Ultimately, we want the support of the committee to try to have a strong competitive market and price for the beef and livestock sector.

Our president made the case on the impact of Brexit. Already this year beef farmers have incurred price losses of €100 million. When one compares the price that farmers received from 1 September last year to date with the pre-Brexit levels of 2015, it is down about €100 million in total.

We have consistently heard the Commission and the Government say that they will not leave farmers short-changed in respect of Brexit. We are short-changed at present in the order of €100 million and we are asking the committee to support the case to the Government and the European Commission that there should be a compensation aid package to support those farmers to that magnitude and level.