Ms Tara Carton:

A number of questions were asked and I will try to answer them in order. Members might remind me if I miss any of them. I apologise in advance if I do. Senator Gallagher mentioned an audit of staff that had been suggested by the TUI and asked if there had been any previous audit. A survey of grant-funded secretaries and caretakers was conducted in early 2009. At that time, approximately half of primary schools and about 300 voluntary secondary schools responded to it so about three quarters of voluntary secondary schools were involved. Based on the returns we got, we estimated that between secretaries and caretakers, the head count of staff in the schools in question was about 8,000. It came to approximately 4,000 whole-time equivalents so each would be roughly working on a half-time basis. That is an extrapolation from the survey results.

There was a question about holiday, lay-off and sick pay. Those are matters for the school's board of management as the employer of the staff concerned. Issues relating to pay and terms and conditions are agreed between the employer and the staff member concerned and the Department does not have a role in that. The arbitration agreement that was reached in 2015 with Fórsa, or IMPACT, as it was at the time, only concerned pay and did not deal with matters like leave or lay-off.

Senator Ruane asked about SNAs, their conditions and the 72 hours. There is an agreed list of duties that SNAs carry out. This includes things like assistance with feeding, administration of medicine, assistance with toileting and general hygiene and assisting teachers in the supervision of pupils in the class and playground etc. There are other duties such as preparation and tidying of work spaces. The duties I listed are part of the 72 hours.

The 72 hours does not include issues the Senator mentioned like washing cars or cleaning toilets. The Deputy mentioned she had some examples and if she wants to send those on, we will look into them.

In terms of engagement with Fórsa on a new model for SNAs, I understand there has been a commitment to engage with Fórsa on that. With regard to the secretaries, the Deputy asked about the different payscales. Mr. Pike mentioned they had written to the Department to seek a meeting on that and we have recently agreed to meet. We have not yet set a date for that but we will arrange one in short order.

Deputy McLoughlin asked about capitation grants but I did not get the details of that question.