Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Ms Murray and Mr. Boland for their contributions and I thank their association for all it is doing. The three big asks I am taking from the discussion is to get the Garda fraud unit set up as quickly as possible. Where are they with the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, or the Minister of State, Deputy D'Arcy? Are they playing pass the parcel with each other? Is one saying it is not a matter for me, it is a matter for the Department of Justice and Equality andvice versaor is it all a matter for the Garda Commissioner?

I refer to the book of quantum, which I have discussed previously with Mr. Boland. It is a statistical, historical database of what has happened and the only way it can change over time is by claims changing. Legislation cannot change the book of quantum but it can, as he suggests, cap the injury awards or whatever over time. The book of quantum is historical and statistical and it is compiled from the information available. Unfortunately, the premiums are as high as they are because the payouts from judges and the insurance system generally have been high. We need to focus on how we can reduce those claims. I do not doubt that everybody in their business is doing everything they can to minimise that.

In the ten or 12 years of her business's existence, has Ms Murray physically changed the design of her premises, taken out certain climbing frames, slides or whatever? Twenty years ago I was involved with summer camps and people would tell us that we could not have step-ups and so on. We hear about children not being able to play or run in playgrounds and so on. I read about a claim yesterday where a table flipped over in the wind and, unfortunately, a three year old broke a nose. The award was €30,000 even though the nose healed perfectly. I am sure there was some trauma for the child but I am not sure about an award of €30,000 or where that figure come from. Does Ms Murray have comparative figures for insurance premiums for similar play centres in the UK, although it has a different claims environment?

Most people have said the Minister of State, Deputy D'Arcy, is doing his bit but he is a lone voice in that regard. I met the Connacht publicans yesterday and I am conscious that the LVA is doing significant work and that the Vintners Federation of Ireland, VFI, is helping out as well. The biggest bone of contention the Connacht publicans had, bar the issue that arose recently in terms of the limits, is the cost of insurance generally, which is destroying their businesses. They are getting one or two customers a night in some venues but they are still paying large insurance premiums for very little return.

The FBD representatives are coming in next. Do the witnesses have any questions they would like members to put to them? We get many lawyers blaming the insurance industry and the insurance industry blaming the lawyers. I would like their thoughts on who is more at fault. I am sure all of them are at fault. I am throwing out the questions because we do not have much time for engagement.

The witnesses final big ask was in terms of their schedule about the reductions in the data availability. Since I joined this committee in 2016, we have been crying out for visibility on claims. They said the CSO and the Central Bank have more or less thrown out the idea of visibility on that. They might give their thoughts on that.