Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The Minister mentioned Ballinrobe which, as he and I both know, reflects a typical conundrum. The population of the town has increased significantly, with housing estates all over the edge of the town. There is more employment in the area than there ever was, thank God, thanks to McHale, ECC Timber Products and other companies. While the main street is maith go leor, the street leading off it has always been derelict and needs major refurbishment. The centre of the town is not as vibrant as it was. This shows that the solution is not simple. Most people believe that town decline is caused by population loss and so on. In the case of Ballinrobe, the population has exploded and there is a very good employment situation, yet the heart of the town is still not what it was. I have thought for some time that it would be good to map what was in the town in its heyday in the 1970s. What businesses were in the premises on the main street and why are they no longer there? I would expect to find that there were lots of grocery shops, hardware shops and pubs and that these have been replaced by major supermarkets at the edge of town and convenience stores in petrol station forecourts. These are not bad things because if the major multinational companies did not locate at the edge of the town, people would go to Castlebar or Claremorris to shop. Nobody can tell me people do not do go to those types of shops.

Such a mapping exercise would highlight the real problem. The way the town was used has become redundant and we need to create new uses for it. Shopping habits have changed and nothing will bring back the old shopping habits. Why would it when online shopping is available? The town centre should be used more for recreational shopping as I describe it, in other words, going out for a meal. Somebody said to me recently that in the old days people ate at home and went out to drink, whereas now they drink at home and go out to eat. All these changes must be examined. If we are serious about addressing this problem, we must acknowledge that the issue is not just the area's population or employment conditions. It is connected to the old function of the town. Obviously, there is no longer a video shop and there are not half as many pubs as there used to be. Does the Minister understand what I am saying? It would be ideal to map what was in Ballinrobe and similar towns in their perceived heyday 30 years ago, find out why those businesses no longer exist and suggest what could replace them. The problem is more complicated that we sometimes believe.

My second point concerns future efforts, rather than this year's Estimate. One thing that has always puzzled me slightly - it was a given before my tenure and during the Minister's tenure but it is worthy of examination - is that administrative costs account for 20% of the LEADER budget. Most Departments directly providing grants manage to achieve a figure of 5% for administration costs. Should we examine the processes in place in LEADER to find out why it is such an expensive project to administer? If we reduced administration costs to 10% of €20 million, there would be another €200,000 to spend on the ground. The amount spent on the administration of a programme for allocating grants is very high. We can dress it up any way we like, with animation and all sorts of fancy European terms, but essentially LEADER is just a grant-giving programme. Groups make an application, secure a grant and spend it.