Mr. Michael Bowe:

It is to be hoped we will address all of the questions. If we have missed anything, please come back to us. I am sure members will do so. Deputy O'Dea reflected on figures. I hope I have his question right. I can confirm that the figures for the LES and the job clubs in 2017 and 2018 are comparable to the outputs for 2016. They are probably not quite as high as the figure of 28.8%, but given that the cohort is becoming more difficult, one would expect it to be lower. The figures still stand up in terms of the numbers that both the LES and the job clubs are delivering. The target is 40% for the job clubs, not 30%. "Remarkable" is the word I would use to describe outputs given the scale of the budget and what has been delivered.

In response to Senator Nash, there will be an information campaign - I do not know if we like to use the word "campaign" - with all of the Senators and Deputies over the coming weeks to try to convince them and the Government about a correct way forward, not just a self-serving interest on our part but on behalf of clients. We want to convince them that the for-profit sector is not the way forward. I say that as someone with 30 years in this business, both at the front line and now as the CEO.

Senator Conway-Walsh asked two questions. We have never seen the contract so we have no idea about it. She asked a question about the figures in the Indecon report. That is an interesting question. If we look at the two reports, which run to 300 pages each, there are definitely figures and commentary with which one would disagree, but in the overall scheme of things, what the Indecon report says is that a service such as this is required. One tries not to get caught up in some of the parts with which one might disagree. Overall, I believe the figures are reasonably accurate in the broadest sense. We would disagree with some of them. I do not know if that answers the Senator's question. It is easy to have a go at things on specific pages, but if we look at the thrust of it, one would accept some of the figures. We would strongly disagree with how some of the recommendations evolved out of the report, but we have commented on that.

Some of the other questions, such as those from Senator Higgins, were dealt with by Ms Fitzgerald. There is a choice for elected representatives at this time, not just the Government. What do we want to do with the most vulnerable in our society, the 5%? We are all very much of the view that just because we have full employment, we cannot move off. For a relatively small investment, groups like ourselves or the community can work in a not-for-profit way and deliver a multitude of benefits that may not all be about employment. They might be about changes in lifestyle, households, families, benefits and children. The Government must grasp that it is not about the money at this time. It is not for profit. It is about what we want to do with the 5% in our society. That is where we play a part and what we are committed to. Others play a role in that as well. I hope the collective part of the Dáil can bear in mind that just because we have X, we still need to provide services for the 5%. It will pay dividends down the road.