Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister and his officials for the presentation. I have a few bits and pieces about which to ask, but everything will be set against the background of Brexit. I sometimes despair listening to people wanting us to not second-guess, but fourth-guess, what will happen across the water when the people there do not have a clue what is happening. It is a nonsense. This is an Irish tendency, where one has to be the leprechaun to jump into the middle of the sea and try to guess what will happen. Let us see and let us keep nice and cool, and calm. I get irked when I hear that type of nonsense.

I am worried about basic issues. In areas of natural constraint, ANC, the Minister has provided €250 million in 2019, a €23 million increase. The biophysical parameters are now involved. Of course, it has gone to an appeals process. All appeals must be in by 8 April. With this two-stage process, is there any indication of the likely number of appeals? There is only a week left.

The Minister would expect me to mention beef, given where I come from. I will mention a few factors here because I have an interest in this issue. A big issue is the grading issue on the kill lines in factories. I happen to be out meeting farmers. It is great to get out to get a bit of fresh air and talk to the Westmeath farmers, many of whom are involved with the beef farmers' forum and beef group. They are fairly hot on the ground and they are not fools. They know there can be no magic wand. They are intelligent people. Yesterday, I spoke to a man with 250 cattle and 150 sheep who well knows that. This mechanical grading is just not doing the business. This man said that they are able to put a digital machine in the air which will tell where one turned the course of a river. He asked why we could not do so in a factory and make sure that farmers get paid. I understand the grades were wrong on a number of occasions. Were there a number of cases where they were wrong in four out of every ten animals? Maybe I am wrong but that is what I hear on the ground. There is grave concern about this and it has to be tackled. It is no use having a beef forum and being nice to those factory boys coming in. One has to give them a few punches when they are in. The legal tolerance - maybe I am wrong and the Minister has senior officials who know all this - for beef grading machines in meat plants is approximately 60%. We should get that up to even 85% or 90% - I accept we will not have 100% - as that is a lot of money going out the door. There are significant losses in that. I understand trials are taking place with digital cameras, LED lights, etc., but how far advanced are they? Is there a plan to deal with those perceived issues? Maybe they are only perceived. I hear anecdotally about grading anomalies in the factories and between factories and it is a cause of concern. Things are bad enough on the ground, as I will illustrate, but if we could intervene, we could make a positive contribution in trying to deal with those issues. We brought in grids, for example, and if they are not working, they must be re-examined. We cannot stick to the same old line that they are grand in respect of this and the quality price system, QPS. We must sort those out. That is from where I am starting.

I spoke to another farmer yesterday. He said it appeared that everybody was getting a cut out of it. All the intermediaries, between farm and fork, are getting a cut and the only ones who are not getting a cut are the producers. The processors are getting plenty of cuts - the Minister need not worry about that. They are cutting people any chance they get.

Mr. Martin O'Sullivan was a colleague of mine in the 1980s, which is a long time ago. He did a study, which is well worth reading, taking the Teagasc farm management survey on suckling and cattle rearing on an average-sized farm of 87 acres. Between 2013 and 2017, the return on that farm, including subsidies, was €11,063, or €130 an acre. Let us not forget the subsidies are included. Between 1998 and 2002, the average income was €12,228, some €1,200 more. In the meantime, there was inflation of 37%. In order to stand still, one would need €16,752. That tells members, who themselves are involved in a bit of this and are interested, one would need €6,700 more to stand still on the same farm, the same number of animals, etc. Of course, the subsidies are 105% profit. Without the subsidies, it would be a negative wash-out.

One should bear in mind that Westmeath is a fulcrum of suckler farms. These are farmers who do the proper beef. They are not into the dairy stuff. Theirs is the real stuff. I spoke to those farmers yesterday and one man said to me that he would be better off if he let the land or put much of it into forestry. He said a man up the road was going into dairy and that he could let it to him. I cannot issue enough warnings about this rush into dairying, particularly by those in the beef dry stock area. It might sound great but, Lord save us, it involves a level of investment, work and everything else. Apart from that altogether, I never saw a balloon going up that did not come down. That is what worries me. That is the story. The return is €130 per acre and all that is all subsides.

The policy over the years must have been devised by Gay Byrne as there is a little for everyone in the audience. That is a problem. We must make our minds up on a policy direction and see where we are to go. The next round of CAP measures will be the defining time. It will be time for the Minister to make his mind up because he cannot represent everybody. If the Minister wants to have a policy objective to make sure we sustain the maximum number of farmers, something will have to happen.

The reason I raise that is there was a vote in the European Parliament today about convergence. If I am correct, it opted for 75% convergence, which is Big Phil's story, as opposed to 100% convergence, which is the left-wing story.