Ms Maria Joyce:

If we want change in education, we need to be honest about the realities of the education system today with regard to Traveller children. I will make a point about teachers. In the earlier part of his contribution, Mr. Byrne spoke about the principals and recognised the bias that can exist among teachers in their views of the Traveller children in front of them. As a Traveller woman who went through the education system in the 1970s and 1980s, and as a Traveller mother who put her child through the education system in the 1990s and 2000s, I know there is blatant racism among some teachers in those education systems. I have had to listen to my son tell me that a teacher in the school told him to go home and take off his knacker's dog chain because he had a thin bracelet on his arm.

Based on my work in our organisation and listening to Traveller women who are engaging in those spaces at local and national level, I know I am not unique in that view. There are many examples of Traveller children in the education system experiencing racism and discrimination. That is the reality. I am not saying every teacher is doing that but there are many examples of Traveller children having that experience in schools today. If we are being honest about the realities of the situation, one of the key barriers across the board in terms of education, and other areas of policy, is the issue of racism. We cannot do the change of addressing those conditions in isolation.

There are challenges within the community but it is unfair to say that Travellers do not see value in education. Travellers are not seeing outcomes from education in terms of employment or further opportunities, whether it be in education or elsewhere.

We are beginning to see Traveller children coming through secondary school and when that trend starts to happen, it usually picks up, grows and more and more children come through. In some families it is harder to get younger siblings to the end of that process because they are seeing older siblings coming through the secondary school system with no outcomes from that system.

We have to be very careful that in the work we are doing we do not generalise or stereotype. There are challenges within the community but we need to be very careful that we do not blame the community because of the reality of the education system. Questions arise if one child from a group of children comes through an education system without being able to read and write. I refer to a group of children going through the entire primary school system and coming out unable to read or write.

That is the responsibility of the education system. Let us be frank about that. I spoke earlier about women and girls going through education as role models. I want to be clear in that context that the majority of Traveller women we engage with and who engage with schools want their children to have a good education. They want them in the education system and they want them to get through it. The reality is, however, that they are not seeing the fair and real outcomes they should be getting in employment, as I said.

We need to be careful that the community does not get blamed here. The conditions need to be created from early school right up to further and continuing education at third level to address this. There is a need for targeted initiatives right across the board. Someone asked earlier if there was an additional school year for younger Traveller children. Targeted initiatives and ensuring they are appropriately and adequately resourced is very important. We do not want a segregated provision. We have had that as Travellers and it has not worked for us. As someone who has come through Traveller-only classes in schools, I am telling the committee it has not worked for us. Albeit I have gone though third level, segregated provision has not worked in the main for Travellers. However, we need targeted initiatives. One cannot mainstream if everyone is not at an equal starting point. Travellers are not at that equal starting point which is why targeted initiatives are needed across the board. Scholarships and bursaries are needed for Traveller teachers. We have Travellers teachers. I do not doubt that there are Traveller teachers out there. However, the reality is that they are not identifying as Travellers, which tells one all about conditions for Travellers who have gone through and are in teaching spaces. I heard a Traveller woman speak in the Houses of the Oireachtas when we were looking at the recognition of Traveller ethnicity about a cousin who was a school principal and petrified it would become known that she was a Traveller. That is the reality of it. Those conditions are not conducive. Racism and discrimination feeds into that which make those conditions continue.

There is a need for implementation. We have a range of actions. While we may need more, the reality is that if we implemented what we had, we would at least begin to see the change that is needed. Most important is implementation and monitoring. The role of data in that context is crucial and our access to that data is equally important. The ethnic identifier at primary level needs to be right through the system but there needs to be serious additions to it and the training attached to all of it. The engagement with Traveller organisations must be real and meaningful. A question was asked earlier regarding the review of the education strategy. As far as I am aware, a desk review is taking place and we are led to believe there will be some engagement with Traveller organisations around it. That engagement must be real and meaningful.

Senator Ruane mentioned the punishment related to the children's allowance. I will need to check that. A stick approach to penalising the community does not work when the conditions are not in place to ensure equality of access at the school door and to ensure participation and outcomes. A transfer rate from primary to secondary school of 80% when the majority of children are in and around the age of 12 and the legal age to be in school in this country is 16 is very telling about an education system that is failing to meet the needs of an entire group of people. It is happening. Schools say there are no places, do not offer them or offer them where it is inappropriate for the children to go. Those practices need to be stamped out. An 80% transfer rate from primary to post-primary level is not the fault of the parents in all those circumstances. We have seen countless examples of schools refusing to accept children. That is the reality of it. The greater element of that statistic arises on foot of that practice as opposed to any kind of parental involvement.