Mr. Seán Ó hUallacháin:

The Brexit issue has come up for consideration and is causing some disquiet. In reply to Deputy Ó Laoghaire, it is not necessary for it to be in the legislation currently going through the Oireachtas. Without getting too technical - because it gets very technical - there is a 1996 Convention on Jurisdiction, Applicable Law, Recognition, Enforcement and Co-operation in Respect of Parental Responsibility and Measures for the Protection of Children, known as the 1996 convention. The UK will continue to apply that convention but, within the EU, Brussels II bis takes precedence. If the UK is no longer in the EU, it will arguably not apply Brussels II legislation but it will apply the 1996 convention. That will resolve many of the immediate issues until some form of bilateral arrangement between the UK and the EU emerges.

It is not a cause for alarm bells. It is a concern rather than a cause for alarm. The issue might become more serious as the years roll on if the UK will not apply decisions of the ECJ and there may be a greater divergence. There will probably be no great divergence for the first few months or maybe even years after Brexit between what will happen under the 1996 convention and Brussels II bis. A divergence could emerge over time and cause a particular difficulty, more for this jurisdiction due to our close proximity and historical connections to the UK.

Mention was made of the transfer mechanism under Article 15 of Brussels II bis and the fact that jurisdiction lies with the habitual residence of the child but it can be otherwise in exceptional circumstances and there could be a transfer to a better placed court if conditions are met. The 1996 convention will work out fine in the short term. Following the UK's withdrawal, some parts of Brussels II bis will not apply.

There is a 1980 convention for child abduction cases which is the other convention that was referred to. It deals with the civil aspects of international child abduction. There is again a broad similarity but there is something called a non-return order which ends the case under that convention whereas, under Brussels II bis, the court of the country where the child is residing must send the papers to the court of the country the child has been removed from and the second court can order the return of the child. That is again a minority issue but the 1980 convention has that provision.

There are issues. The Department of Justice and Equality has examined this and there is a hope that, in the short term, any divergence will not be significant immediately, but, over time, divergence could emerge. A connection has been built up because each jurisdiction has judges who deal in this area who do not wait to talk to each other by megaphone. They phone and email each other. There is direct contact between the judges with responsibility for this in each jurisdiction. They have conferences and get to know each other so there is good rapport, particularly between Irish and UK judges when they can speak English to one another. In the immediate term, good sense will probably prevail among the judiciary on both sides. That is the importance of contact and connection rather than megaphone diplomacy.

A residual area where there could be problems is the enforcement of maintenance. As I understand it, and I am subject to correction on this, there is not an avalanche of maintenance orders. I would have thought the figure was higher but it may be 250 to 300 per year. We are talking about approximately 20 or 25 a month. There will be a short-term, immediate problem if the UK leaves the EU on 29 March but, as I understand it - again subject to correction - the Department of Justice and Equality is considering some form of statutory instrument which will resolve that. It may not be there on 29 March but it will be there in May or June.

We will get over these issues. Perhaps the committee will invite us back in a year or two, or there may have to be other legislation. For the moment, it will not be plain sailing and there are concerns, but they can be dealt with in the short term.