Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The point has been raised in the past that the issue of a money message may arise with this Bill. A refusal to issue a money message would be a cynical way to put the brakes on the legislation. Any fair reading of the Bill will show that the issue of a money message does not arise.

Reference was made to self-consumption. This Bill would not end self-consumption. As other speakers said, energy can still be retained because the Bill addresses the issue of surplus energy. The feed-in tariff is a big issue. Householders, small businesses or farmers will not invest in something unless there is some guarantee and certainty around the return on investment.

On efficiency, managing the grid and the technology, I am not an engineer but some of the research we have done shows that up to 15% of electricity leaks from the grid. The closer electricity is generated to where it is used, the less is used. Some of the representatives of industry we met in the past couple of years have told us this. I highlight this point because it is important to note that the level of leakage reduces when electricity is generated close to where it is used.

I agree with the point made about small-scale and large-scale energy generation. The Bill makes provision for small community projects, home generation and farms. As I have pointed out previously, many of the larger cattle sheds being erected are south facing and there is no reason they should not be fitted with large solar panels. I have seen cattle sheds in Deputy Lowry's constituency of Tipperary with lovely south-facing roofs that would catch a large amount of energy. It is about harnessing that energy, not only using solar panels but also through small-scale wind and hydro generation. There is considerable agreement on the citizen and community element. Savings will be achieved through reduced greenhouse gas emissions, the development of microgeneration and having other sources of power. Nearly 25 years ago, when some of us started talking about waste reduction and recycling we were told Irish people would never do that. Those who made that argument were wrong. We can make further progress on the waste front. There is an appetite for change in terms of energy generation.

The Minister, the Department and others who deal with this issue argue that we must be careful in how we proceed. I am not saying this in a totally negative way but they are being over-cautious. Civil servants are cautious by nature and sometimes they must be for good reason. This has all been done before. Germany has been highlighted and other states are doing this. They have pushed the boat out on this issue. Ireland has introduced all sorts of madcap schemes in other areas of industry and made huge investments that did not work out. This proposal is very modest. When we are a bit bold and ambitious we can be very good in bringing about change. Mr. Paul Kenny from the Tipperary Energy Agency is here. We have had contact with that agency, which has done major research and brought considerable expertise to the whole area. No one who visited the company - Deputies from political parties and Independents, officials and journalists with whom I spoke afterwards - was anything but impressed with the examples of what that agency has achieved in Tipperary within the strictures and confines of how the system currently operates.

Some of us want to change and reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and the import bill for expensive fossil fuels, which will become more expensive. With Brexit imminent and America shaping up for trade wars, supply will become more precarious. As an island, we cannot cut ourselves off from the world but we can do much more with regard to generating our own sources of power. The Tipperary Energy Agency has shown how this can be done. There is growing awareness among the public, particularly young people and schoolchildren, of the need for change to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. People who have travelled to other countries see living examples of this happening and it is time that we caught up.

In the main, the presentations were positive around the need to do all of this. I am flexible about amending and improving the Bill. I realise it is on Second Stage but we need to accelerate the process and move the Bill on. I thank the witnesses for being here.