Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 28 February 2019

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach

Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Yes. Again this is something we should all bear in mind. Not a week goes by that an Opposition spokesperson or leader does not call for an inquiry, commission of investigation or tribunal to investigate something. While they may well be merited, we need to bear in mind the time they take and the fact that they often do not give people the answers they want or need and that they cost the taxpayer a considerable amount of money. We all need to bear that in mind in our demands for further inquiries, commissions and tribunals in the future.

The Deputy asked about the 20 politically appointed staff. They, of course, are for the entire Department and not just for me. They include civilian drivers for the Ministers of State and constituency staff and staff for the Ministers of State and also for staff for the Independents. From answers given in the Chamber people will know the amount spent on politically appointed staff by me, as Taoiseach, is less than my last three forebears holding the office. I intend to keep it at that notwithstanding increments, pay rises and all the rest of it that cause it to edge up bit by bit every year.

While I may be wrong, I believe mygov.iehas always come under the remit of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It never fell under the remit of my Department. It is headed up by the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer, OGCIO. The only role my Department had with mygov.ie and gov.iewas that mine was the first Department to embrace it and transition its website over to it. However, we never ran the project; that is being run from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

The GIS has a press function. It provides a press office, takes queries from journalists, organises press conferences, organises events and launches, and, obviously, is responsible for merrionstreet.ie, which is the Government news website set up 15 or 20 years ago. We have really reverted to the previous model with campaigns - where they happen - generally being run from outside the Department from the line Department with a degree of co-ordination from my Department. I still take the view that it would work better were it centralised, but it became such an area of political controversy and distraction that we took the decision to wind it down. As I think Deputies will acknowledge, all the inquiries since have found that the vast majority of charges and allegations made were without foundation, but that is all history now.

On housing and homelessness, of course the figures for those in emergency accommodation were published yesterday, which, again, are bad and very disappointing for all of us struggling to deal with the issue but, most of all, for the people who are affected by it and who are forced to live in emergency accommodation. On the positive side, to the extent that there is a positive side, it shows that the number of families in emergency accommodation is down to its lowest for a year. The number of families in hotels is also down as we move more towards the use of family hubs. However, there is nothing to celebrate in any of that. The figures seem to be stabilising at around 10,000. That is where they have been for the best part of a year, but that is not good enough. In the next couple of months, I want to turn the corner and start to see those figures reducing rather than stabilising. That is definitely where we want to be in the next few weeks.

I do not have the figures for length of stay in emergency accommodation. I am advised that the average length of stay for a family in emergency accommodation is approximately six months. I take the Deputy's point about the long-term psychological impact that stays longer than that can have on children. However, in some cases where it is longer than six months one will find that offers of accommodation have been made but have not been accepted. That is also part of the mix that we need to bear in mind.

As the Deputy can imagine, I receive many briefings on housing. I have a big one on my desk for a trilateral meeting with the Ministers for Finance and Housing, Planning and Local Government, and their officials and advisers. We discuss these things in different formats: sometimes at full Cabinet; sometimes at Cabinet sub-committee; and sometimes at a meeting of the three or four key Ministers, which I find to be quite useful. Cabinet sub-committees have their value but they involve 50 or 60 people. Sometimes a meeting of seven or eight can be more productive. Those of us who spend a considerable amount of time at meetings will understand why that will be. All formats are used and it depends on which is the most appropriate.

I also receive briefings from the CEOs of the major NGOs working in the homelessness and housing sectors. I have been involved in round-table meetings on two occasions with all the CEOs from Simon, the Peter McVerry Trust and Focus Ireland. I had a very good one a few weeks ago and will follow that up again later in the year. I get briefings, of course, directly from the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. NESC, which comes under my remit, has done some really good work on land use and housing. I would have been briefed directly by NESC on that. Obviously, one of my political advisers also follows housing and looks at a considerable amount of the reports and research that exists.

Housing and homelessness are two issues in respect of which we make good use of the Cabinet sub-committee system precisely because they relate to a few Departments. I think the last Cabinet sub-committee meeting on infrastructure and housing was last week or the previous week. At that meeting, we particularly examined the inter-agency report on homelessness because that requires a response. We all know that homelessness is about much more than housing. Dealing with homelessness requires a response from the Departments of Health, Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Finance, and Justice and Equality in respect of immigration. There is a big focus on that with the last Cabinet sub-committee really putting pressure on the other Departments to do their bit and understand that housing is not just a problem for the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. As there are immigration issues, the Department of Justice and Equality needs to be on board.

We do not know the exact figure but approximately 20% to 30% of people who are in emergency accommodation are non-EU citizens. Some of them may not have a right to be here. There are also issues around addiction and mental health. Lifting people out of homelessness requires action from the Department of Health, particularly when it comes to issues around better addiction and mental health services. We have had a detailed discussed around that issue and what we are going to do with the Simon Community, in particular, in responding to some of its requests. There are also issues around social protection. The Cabinet committee system is used, where appropriate. It is often equally appropriate to have discussions with the full Cabinet. In fact, we took that memo from the Cabinet sub-committee to the full Cabinet this week. In addition, I meet Ministers on a one-to-one basis and on a trilateral basis, which I find quite useful.

On housing supply, the Deputy is right that the target is 35,000 new homes annually. We want to move away from what we had in the past in terms of the provision of 80,000 homes one year and 10,000 the next year. We want to achieve a steady stream of approximately 35,000 per annum but we are also realistic that we can only ramp up at a certain pace. There are limiting factors. Approximately 20,000 new homes and apartments were built last year. In regard to the Deputy's request for me to expand on those data, that total includes ghost estates being finished and voids being brought back into use. Approximately 19,000 new homes and apartments were built last year. The target for this year is 25,000, with a view to getting to 35,000 but we are being practical, honest and realistic about how quickly we can ramp up housing construction in a sustainable way. Even though the number of houses built last year was greater than in any other year this decade, we think a reasonable target is 25,000 this year, 30,000 next year and 35,000 the following year.

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