Mr. Pat Rabbitte:

I thank Deputy Sherlock for his kind remarks and good wishes. He is right about the relationship between the agency and politics and the political environment generally. A great deal more can be done in that regard. Outside of this committee, I greatly doubt if Members of the Oireachtas are as familiar with the work of Tusla as one might expect, given that, as constituency politicians, they encounter these issues from time to time. The responsibility for that rests with Tusla in terms of promoting the good narrative it has to tell, as well as the deficiencies that have been highlighted in various inquiries and so on. There is a good story to tell and I would welcome forging that closer link with politics to which Deputy Sherlock refers. I am very happy to invite the Chairman and his colleagues to the Brunel Building to meet us for a presentation tailored to meet their needs and to address the suggestions that would come from members of the committee.

That might be of help to both of us.

Deputy Sherlock raised the big issue of recruitment. I am aware that the committee recently had an opportunity to discuss this issue with the chief executive and members of the senior management team. There is undoubtedly a major issue for the agency. It is also a large part of the explanation for some of the deficiencies highlighted in the HIQA report, for example. Even though Tusla has recruited 800 social workers since 2014 - it has had to run very fast to stand still - the net gain has been minimal at 4%. Last year was a good example. We recruited approximately 60% of the available social workers - I think the exact number was something like 142 - but 158 social workers retired or left the service for other reasons. That gives the committee an idea. In 2018, 142 social workers were recruited and 158 social workers left through retirement and other reasons. It is a huge issue for us. We have to look at whether the training and education of social workers should continue to be the remit of the traditional universities only. I think we have to look outside the traditional universities. We also have to look at the possibilities for people in other grades to convert to becoming social workers. Why, for example, should there not be a conversion course for social care workers?

I will respond to Deputy Sherlock's particular point by emphasising that this issue cannot be resolved by Tusla alone. I would love to get into the car with the chief executive and go to see the new president of Technological University Dublin and the heads of the institutes of technology. Those colleges have successfully produced skilled people for industry and business. I am sure they would be responsive, but that is not the way things happen in the public service. There is a high-level committee dealing with this matter. As far as I can see, the universities have not made provision to increase the output. I think 215 places are available each year. I have not seen any proposals from the universities to tackle this problem next year. In the meantime, there is great pressure on Tusla. In an area I was dealing with recently, 33 social workers left last year. There are 92 social workers on maternity leave. That cannot happen without leaving gaps. It really is a significant issue for us.