Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

In this session we are dealing with the 2015 financial statements of Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board. In the afternoon we will look at housing issues in connection with the appropriation account of the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government when we will be joined by representatives of the Irish Council for Social Housing and the approved housing body interim regulatory committee. First, we will examine the 2015 financial statements of Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board, as well as the supplementary report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Thorn report on that ETB. It is very unusual for us to look at accounts that are more than three years old. We have been in correspondence with the Department of Education and Skills which has stated sets of accounts and the report have been sent to An Garda Síochána for its attention. I understand an investigation is ongoing. It is appropriate, therefore, that we proceed in a manner which will not undermine the investigation in any way. I ask for the co-operation of members and witnesses in that regard. The reports in their entirety have been referred to An Garda Síochána for investigation. What is being investigated by it is not for discussion here. I, therefore, ask members not to ask anything about the Garda investigation. Even if pressed, the witnesses are not to answer questions on matters subject to Garda investigation and should not feel pressurised to do so. I will intervene to make sure nothing happens here to compromise the investigation or proceedings that may follow from it. I will not allow the Committee of Public Accounts to compromise such proceedings. We will have to be quite strict in that regard, but I believe everybody understands the seriousness of the matter.

We are joined from the Department of Education and Skills by Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General; Mr. Hubert Loftus, Mr. Gary O Doherty, Ms Martina Mannion, and Mr. Phil O'Flaherty. From Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board we are joined by Mr. Noel Merrick, chairperson; Dr. Rory O'Toole, director of schools; Mr. Joe Kelly, director of organisation support and development; Ms Caitriona Murphy, director of further education and training; and Dr Deirdre Keyes, chief executive.

I remind members, witnesses and those in the Visitors Gallery to turn off all mobile phones fully. Merely leaving them in silent mode will not prevent them from interfering with the recording and broadcasting systems.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. That sentence could not be more significant. They have absolute privilege which is not to be abused. That is very relevant in the light of the Garda investigation. Nobody should attempt to abuse the privilege attached to proceedings in the Oireachtas. If witnesses are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Again, I stress the importance of that sentence. I am not talking about names being mentioned, but I cannot allow lines of questioning that seek to identify a person or an organisation. We cannot go there. It is a standing rule, but we must be absolute and strict in applying it today.

Members are reminded of the provisions of Standing Order 186 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policy or policies. While we expect witnesses to answer questions put by the committee clearly and with candour, they can and should expect to be treated fairly and with respect and consideration at all times, in accordance with the witness protocol.

We will now hear opening statements from the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Ó Foghlú, and Dr. Keyes.