Mr. Ian Drennan:

To respond to the Deputy's first comment, it is a stark comment but the analysis in the material supplied is not really mine. The former Attorney General and Minister for Justice and current Senator, Michael McDowell, produced a report at the time at the request of the then Tánaiste, Mary Harney, when she was the Minister responsible for that Department. It was he who recommended to the Government at the time the establishment of the ODCE. I am paraphrasing but I think the soundbite at the time was that the enforcer's footsteps were never heard. This was at a time when levels of non-compliance with even basic obligations under the Companies Acts, such as the filing of annual accounts and returns with the Companies Registration Office, CRO, were very high. It is a stark statement but it probably does withstand scrutiny. Certainly, that is in essence what Senator McDowell found at the time.

I refer to the three-stage approach. The first stage certainly lasted until Senator McDowell's report. Then there were the early days of the ODCE, when it was finding its feet and did some very good work. Then Anglo hit and the office was completely consumed for several years thereafter and, as I said at the outset, did some very good work. We have discussed this at some length. Some of this, to refer to Deputy Kelleher's comments earlier, resulted in scathing findings, which were fully accepted. That was the second phase. The third phase follows those events. Now we are trying to enhance the skill sets of the organisation and learn from the issues that arose as a consequence of the second phase to try to leverage off them to engage in our stock in trade, our day-to-day business, which involves files with a view to submitting to the DPP, as opposed to the District Court prosecutions, although we still do those on occasion.

Deputy Lawless is correct that we have two barristers at present. We also have two solicitors, so we have four lawyers in total. He can take it as a given that in any investigation of any significance, certainly criminal investigations, we engage counsel at quite an early stage for a variety of reasons, not least, as I referred to earlier in comments to the Chairman, as part of the learning from mitigating risks.

In civil investigations, such I referenced earlier, we similarly engage counsel early. As the Deputy stated, that is a fundamental aspect of risk mitigation. He also referred to specific issues. In light of our earlier conversation, and if the Deputy does not mind, I will not get into those issues pending receipt of the document.