Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Mr. Drennan and the other witnesses.

While some of the language may have been colourful at the committee last week, as was referenced, I am supportive of the purpose of the ODCE in ensuring the integrity of company law is upheld. It is not just the integrity of company law that is involved but the integrity of the State and how it is viewed by the outside world. It is important we ensure the office has a prosecutorial role with the capacity and wherewithal to do its job. I do not want to see the office as a failed entity. It must have all the resources available to it to perform its duties.

In that context, the questions we must ask are around the proposed scheme of companies (corporate enforcement authority) Bill. Would it have addressed some of the challenges which the ODCE has faced? While we might try to put a gloss on it and pretend it did not happen, there was a large criminal trial. Judge John Aylmer, the trial judge, was, to say the least, unkind to the ODCE about its performance and how it collated evidence, addressed the issue of statement taking and the basic presentation of the case in the trial itself. That is a fact which cannot be disputed. If it is, we can move it to another stage in our discussions. Are the heads of the Bill, as outlined, sufficient to address the issues of what was thrown up during the trial and of which Judge Aylmer was so scathing in terms of the State's ability to prosecute?

I was once a Minister of State in the Department which oversees the ODCE. I would have had discussions with Mr. Drennan's predecessor around the issue of resourcing. Complex trials can come about in the area of company law. Resources can be taken from or bequeathed to the ODCE at the whim of the Department, a Secretary General, Minister or Minister of State. Looking at the make-up of the staff available to the office over many years, it is certainly not compatible with what is required to deal with the complexities of company law, investigate any breaches and then potentially prosecute them.

Is Mr. Drennan satisfied there is enough independence provided in the heads of the Bill around the issue of assessing and adjudicating the required resources for the day-to-day workings of the office and taking an individual or a company to court? It must be borne in mind that the largest criminal trial involving the ODCE collapsed and the judge was not complimentary to say the least.

The report suggested there should be greater co-operation or use of the resources of An Garda Síochána in presenting a case and taking statements. Does Mr. Drennan believe that has been sufficiently addressed in the heads of the Bill?

When one looks at the expertise on which the ODCE can call, where does Mr. Drennan see the decision-making process sitting with the DPP? Is there an overlap? Should the DPP have more of a prosecutorial role in the ODCE or should the ODCE be allowed to act more independently?