Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

The board was reporting to the steering group, which reported to the other board, the one which had been set up by Mr. Jim Breslin. The steering group was set up in May and the other board in September. They obviously had concerns back then or they would not have put in these layers of accountability. It was confirmed to me at yesterday's health committee meeting that attempts were made throughout October, and certainly on 17 October, by the Department of Health to sit down with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to discuss this. The Department of Health was not able to sit down with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. This is the most amazing and unbelievable thing in all of this, which is why we need the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to come before us. The budget negotiations were ongoing and the rows between the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform about budget allocations and overspends were on the front page of every newspaper, but on 9 August the Taoiseach, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Health were all aware of it. The Department of Health was trying to sit down with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to discuss it but it never happened.

There are multiple issues here. One of them is the fact that somebody was sitting on the board who was subject to Circular 12/2010. Another is that there was a failure to sit down and discuss the issue, despite the fact that everyone was aware that there was an overspend of at least €200 million at this stage. If that does not justify us getting information from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, nothing does.