Mr. Nick Henderson:

I thank the committee for the opportunity to present. The members of the committee have our written statement so I will not repeat it completely. I am going to talk about two issues in particular. First, I will give a reminder of what the Bill does and does not do. I will then speak on the money message and cost issue. On what the Bill does, as Senator Kelleher stated, we are submitting that this is a modest law which does three things. It broadens the definition of family from child and spouse to include child, spouse and dependent relatives. It takes us back to a definition that existed in Irish law for over a decade.

The Bill creates an internal review mechanism. It does not create a new body, instead it creates an internal review mechanism reporting to the Minister for Justice and Equality. It also removes the 12-month time limit. In our experience, that limit is important because refugees struggle to prepare a family reunification application within 12 months of the granting of refugee status. Refugees have to prepare themselves to transition out of direct provision and they may have difficulty in identifying and finding their family member in the country from which they have fled.

With the greatest of respect to the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, we submit that he, arguably, overstated the power of the law when he spoke in the Dáil. It does not create the right of family reunification. It creates the right to apply for family reunification. That application could be refused or it could be accepted. The application will turn on whether the evidence submitted establishes whether there was dependency between the refugee in Ireland and the family member outside of Ireland.

The Bill does not remove existing provisions that allow the Minister to refuse an application. The Minister can still refuse an application on the grounds of national security, public policy, whether the applicant has been excluded from the protection of the refugee convention or if the applicant put forward information during their application that was found to be untruthful. Ms Finn may speak on this in more detail, but in our experience establishing dependency under the old Act was not at all easy. It required a lawyer, usually a good lawyer, to assist the applicant in preparing evidence that would show there was emotional and financial dependency and that dependency had been existing prior to the granting of refugee status and after it.

It must also be remembered that these issues have been considered by our courts and, indeed, by the Supreme Court in the decision of AMS vMinister for Justice and Equality, as referenced in our submission. In that case, the court again found that there is a balancing act the Minister has the right to apply in all such cases. He has to balance the rights of the individual against the power of the State to regulate immigration. A court, including the Supreme Court, will be slow to intervene in that process unless it can be established that the weighing up process was unreasonable. What I am trying to say in all of this is to emphasis this is a modest proposal and the Minister will still has considerable power to control this process. That is perhaps contrary to the perception that developed in the Dáil. The Minister has also said people could apply to the administrative scheme. In our experience, and in our submission, and I think Ms Finn will also mention this again in more detail, that is a very arduous and difficult process for an individual to apply through.

Turning to the issue of the money message, in forming our perception of what the relevant Standing Orders state and in developing our analysis we have considered the Oireachtas Library and Research Service's note on Private Members' Bills. That has been quite helpful. As Senator Kelleher said, as we read it Standing Order 179 refers to it not being possible for a Bill be initiated and taken onto Second Stage if it appropriates revenue. We argue this Bill does not appropriate revenue.

It does not create a tax or charge. As Senator Kelleher suggested, that it has already moved to this point in the legislative process possibly suggests the Ceann Comhairle agreed with that analysis. We are now at the point where we have to consider whether there is an incidental expense. I note that the Standing Order does not define "incidental". We have asked the committee to be mindful that the Bill, on a literal reading, does not create any public expenditure or a tax and does not necessarily even create incidental expenditure. If it were to be enacted tomorrow, it would merely give the opportunity to an individual to apply for family reunification. It would not require the State to create a body to consider applications because there is already a body that does this, namely, the Department of Justice and Equality. We also have to be mindful in our submission that "incidental" must mean something more than simply the printing of paper, for example. It is not defined, but for the Oireachtas to use the word "incidental", it must mean something more than the consideration of applications which, as I said, are already processed by the Department of Justice and Equality.

Even if we continue to have concerns about this issue and within this area the money message, we ask the committee to be mindful of the fact that there is no legal aid in seeking family reunification. In other words, the burden is completely on the applicant to prepare the case. The measure only creates a right to apply. We are not aware of the Department seeing any reduction in staff, necessarily. There is an existing Department, or part of the Department of Justice and Equality, that considers applications. The review body carries out an internal review of the papers involving the Minister. If we believe there are costs, it could arguably reduce them on the grounds that it would possibly reduce expensive and long judicial reviews involving the High Court.

We ask the committee to be mindful of the fact that family reunification, in our experience, is beneficial, possibly to everybody. The Minister has made reference to the family reunification directive, an EU instrument to which we have not signed up. In the instrument, in recital 4, it is stated family reunification is a necessary way of making family life possible and helps to create socio-cultural stability and promote economic development. As Senator Kelleher stated, in our experience, people who come here are often net contributors in the end.

There is not an appropriation. The measure does not create a tax or charge. With regard to incidental expenditure, the amount falls below the threshold the Oireachtas envisages in that regard. I ask members to consider the fact that it does not create an immediate right; rather, it gives a person the opportunity to apply for family reunification.

Those are my views on what the Bill does and does not do. I have also outlined the associated money message issues. We will be happy to take questions.