Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Perhaps one day, Deputy Boyd Barrett will be in this role and can give it a go. If a Minister decides to do complex things, risk and challenge come with that but it is worth it because otherwise we will not build the national children's hospital. There is a reason the children's hospital was first mentioned in these Houses in the 1960s. My mother was born in the 1960s. How long does this have to go on for? We are building this hospital. We are going to get to the question but we are going to get to it in a logical way, which brings me to the next point about what we learn. The learnings from this will be far bigger than just my Department.

Thankfully, we are back in an era of growth, in capital terms, and of doing big projects. That is good and that is why I am excited about the appointment I have made of Mr. Fred Barry to the new chair of the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board. As CEO of the National Roads Authority, Mr. Barry showed an ability to demand that projects got delivered on time and on budget. He will bring a forensic eye to the issue and he has my full support.

We also need to be careful that we do not presume, yet again, that these increases were avoidable and that if everybody had not made loads of big mistakes, the figure would have been €983 million. Even without the PwC report, we know there was user engagement and that, after the Government decision of April 2017, there was further engagement with staff and patients. Staff and patients made other changes that were appropriate, though I do not suggest it represented a big amount. I believe it was some €20 million. There was a High Court ruling on fire safety standards and, while there were safety precautions in the existing hospital, the High Court stated that we had to do more and this cost several millions more. We need to differentiate between the costs that were unavoidable and those that could have been avoided if people had done their job. It is not within my competence to do this and that is why we have brought in PwC. We should not jump to category 2 and presume everything sits in that bucket. If we did that, we could cancel the external review and issue findings now.