Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent) | Oireachtas source

This is an issue which we have discussed previously. It may be shocking for people but it is not surprising in the context that we know the Minister and the Cabinet made the decision to appoint Fingal County Council prior to the enactment of this legislation. It is a matter we have discussed before. I have put it to the Minister that designating Fingal County Council as the competent authority, in advance of the Oireachtas approving it, is a pretty dodgy course of action to take, particularly when he does not have a plan B.

The simple fact of the matter is that nobody agrees with the Minister’s proposition to designate Fingal County Council as the competent authority for noise regulation in the airport. Fianna Fáil’s attitude is a bit of a fudge. Nobody has given the Minister everything he wants in terms of this. The idea the recruitment for a unit has been sanctioned is not surprising. What is more shocking about it is the level at which the Minister has pitched the recruitment grades. It shows a total lack of understanding of what is necessary in terms of the technical expertise and ability of the people who will form the basis of this competent authority.

When I referred to a somersault earlier, the Minister replied that while that may be nice political rhetoric, it did not mean anything. I put it to the Minister that it means quite a lot because it goes to the heart of the credibility of the information the Minister and his Department have given the committee and Dáil over the past several years. The Minister claimed he had taken this course of action because of legal advice. Two years ago, having met the Attorney General who was a week away from finalising the seventh and hopefully last draft of the regulations, the Minister told me that there was broad agreement that the Irish Aviation Authority was best positioned to take on this role and to do it to the highest standard of professional competence. He said it had a strong and internationally verified track record in the area of aviation security and inspection, functions for which it already had legal responsibility. He also said making it responsible for noise regulation made sense.

That was discussed by the committee. The previous Attorney General stated that the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, is best placed to deal with this issue. It is a bit like the point regarding the EPA and the freedom of information request made by a resident. It gets to the accuracy of the information that is given. At the heart of this matter is deciding when we can believe the Minister and when we cannot. If some of the information which we have been given is easily contradictable, how can we accept anything we are told? Which answer should be accepted? That is at the heart of this issue.

The Minister stated that he has met many residents. Obviously, we appreciate the meetings he attended with residents but we are not raising the issue just to kowtow to residents. Many people in the communities we represent depend on the airport for their livelihood. Some very capable people have given their professional as well as residential input on the arguments and the merits of the proposition before us. It is not grandstanding. Nobody agrees with the way in which the Government has set this up in terms of Fingal County Council being the competent authority. The points made by Deputy Brendan Ryan will come back to haunt the Minister. The Minister cannot demonstrate a functional separation and that will be open to legal challenge. Even the proposed staffing levels serve to strengthen any potential legal challenge. We are digging an enormous hole for ourselves in terms of how it is proposed that this will be done.

In response to queries on why other organisations were not selected, the Minister read to us the notes in that regard which we were given a couple of months ago. We read those notes some time ago and did not agree with them. The points made in that have been reflected upon by members of the affected communities as well as by Oireachtas Members. The key point in regard to the Commission for Aviation Regulation, CAR, is exactly the point that has changed. All the way along, everybody agreed the IAA is best placed in terms of aviation regulation. At the 11th hour, the Government decided there might be a problem in terms of independence, so the IAA was axed from consideration. That is where we were. I referred the Minister to the level of expertise within the IAA. It still has that expertise but the game changer is that it is being moved and split and the regulatory functions for aviation will be held by a new aviation regulator. That is the key issue but the Minister did not address it. The 2017 annual report of the IAA confirms that this idea was being looked at. In the report the IAA pledged to work with the Department throughout 2018 to make this aviation regulatory function a reality. On the previous occasion I raised it with the Minister, he assured me that it is well under way. If it is not progressing quickly enough, that is not the fault of the Opposition or the people who will live with this decision for decades to come. The process was under way but the Minister has not reflected that in the argument.

I agree that the EPA would be a better fit for the role than Fingal County Council as it is responsible for mapping noise, but it does not have any aviation expertise in terms of taking the balanced approach necessary in tackling the sources of noise. The CAR would be better placed as regulator because it has expertise in all of the aviation rules and procedures except noise. The Minister should not rule it out because it does not have noise expertise and then justify the selection of Fingal County Council by reference to its using the levies it will receive from the Dublin Airport Authority, DAA, to acquire the necessary expertise. The proposed staffing arrangements will not provide the necessary expertise. I do not know why nine people are needed at lower grades. Rather, a couple of highly skilled people at far more technical grades are required.

There is a real problem here. We must cut to the chase. It comes down to Fianna Fáil. Deputy Troy is correct. He has consistently raised this issue with the Government in recent years, pointing out that the regulation must be implemented and why Fingal County Council is not suitable to be responsible for that implementation.

What Fianna Fáil is proposing will not provide adequate protection. It is not functionally separate enough. I know that is what Deputy Troy is attempting to do, but even if the function of separation were there, it would not be sufficient. There is not sufficient work in a stand-alone capacity for nine people, and certainly not at that level. Much of the time they would not have anything to do. It fits in more with aviation in that it is not a nine to five, 365 day a year briefing for this role, so if it were to be set up in that way, there would not be sufficient meat, as it were, to attract people of sufficient capabilities. That would be a real problem.

The Minister did not answer the point about the other countries because he repeated back to me the points I had made, thus avoiding the principal point that no other jurisdiction has brought it in the way that we have. Britain and Germany have not brought it in the way that we have. What they have is either a local or a regional authority being set up, and let us face the fact that a German regional authority is bigger than Fingal County Council. In each and every case, however, the Minister for transport of various state departments is also involved in the process and is part of the competent authority. There is not one local authority on its own. Therefore, no Administration has brought it in the same way that Ireland has and that point has not been answered yet.

We are looking for information and concrete answers to questions that are being raised here. It is not just that we are representing the residents' views or providing rhetoric. We are not getting the proper and accurate answers on this and it is not our fault that the rush is on now because the preparation was inadequate to begin with. We are in a difficult situation and this stage of the process can be difficult for people to understand because there are not many votes and maybe we need to explain how that works because it is a bit confusing. We are trying to move the debate on because the general points have been well articulated. Most members do not agree with Fingal County Council and nobody outside of the Minister and presumably Fine Gael agrees with what the Minister is doing. If that is accepted, then the alternative has to be looked at and the Minister has not listened to that. That is what we are here to do-----