Lord Deben:

I am a former minister of agriculture. I come from an agricultural background and I keep cows, so I like to think I am reasonably in line with this. I never think that the phrase "quick wins" works with agriculture. This is a long-term operation. We have recently produced the first of two reports on land use. I am keen on using the expression "land use" rather than agriculture because we have to think about the whole of that.

In the United Kingdom we have a slightly different issue because agriculture there was intensified to a greater degree than in Ireland and as a result we must have far more mixed farming because we have damaged the fertility of our soil. That has led to dealing with the issue of emissions and the fact that the fertility of the soil has been damaged such that it is not capable of sequestering the amount of carbon it should. We are moving towards a de-intensification of livestock. As members can imagine, that received a mixed reaction from the National Farmers Union, but it is surprisingly supportive so long as we do it properly.

Our problem is that because of the barmy policy of leaving the European Union, farmers will be without production supports for the first time since 1939. No living farmer in the United Kingdom has worked in a situation without production support. The British Government has told farmers that production supports will not be available. Farmers happily think that £3 billion will be allocated to farming in a different way. However, they have not met the Treasury. The fact is that it will not be like that. The farmers will be lucky if £500 million is allocated and the £2.5 billion is removed. This will be a huge problem for farmers. Deputy Sherlock asked about Brexit. One of the problems will be that we will have to ask farmers to make real changes at the same time as they are hit by these measures. Ireland will not be in that position.

Ireland needs to recognise that there are no quick wins, but there are ways of improving the situation by using modern technology, getting farmers on side and measuring things better. One of the things we are very bad at is that we do not measure agricultural or pollution output. Farmers may assert that they have done certain things but we do not know whether those things have been done. One must get the measurement right. In the UK, we refused to do that work until the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs gave us some basic measurements to facilitate that. There are no quick wins. Working with farmers to reduce emissions requires slow, regular and continuous policy but one must do it because farming in Ireland, the United Kingdom and everywhere else is a major emitter.

One of the things I hope Ireland could do would be to join with countries such as New Zealand, which has the same intensity of problem because it has a big agricultural sector, to share knowledge about the things that can be done. Ireland could be a real leader on this and shame the rest of the islands into doing better things. There is a role for Ireland in the agricultural world because we must make progress We must face the fact that we cannot allow agriculture to emit at the current levels. We must find ways to enable farmers to continue farming, but to do so in a more environmentally friendly way.