John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Equally, I have no problem accepting the amendments that were alluded to by Deputy Ó Cuív and others that would involve extending the backgrounds from which some of these outside people might come. My understanding of the legislation is that it proposes that the two cathaoirligh, along with the chair of the group, will be responsible for choosing the outside people, of whom there will be either two or four. I am open to extending the backgrounds from which they might come. I hear what members are saying. Deputy Casey said it strongly. He said it might seem in the cold light of day that I am trying to take powers off councillors. Local authority representative groups have expressed support for the idea that, in certain limited circumstances, somebody from business could be involved. In the Waterford example, it could be a representative of the traders in the middle of the city. Business and trade has been mentioned. There have been massive planning issues through the generations in all of these towns. Out-of-town centres have been built and town centres have been destroyed. That is why this provision is included. Deputies might want it to be worded differently and that can be considered on Report Stage. I specifically requested that these people would not have votes because that is what elected people are there to do. I believe there is value in having in the room some people from the community background or the kind of utility background. Maybe they should not be full members. Maybe they should have an ex officio type of status. The elected person should be the paramount person. I have no issue with that.

I would like to respond to some of the other stuff that was raised. Deputy Cullinane asked about the hierarchy. Essentially, it being proposed that these groups will draw up their local area plans. We are not throwing out the local area plan that has already been done in Bray, for example. The next local area plan will include all of Bray, including the part of Bray that is in County Dublin.