Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

No, they are not compulsory. A flu epidemic is especially problematic for elderly people in healthcare settings, whether acute hospitals or nursing homes. A nursing home could have to send up to ten of its residents into an accident emergency department at the height of the Christmas period and during bad weather conditions. Winter planning is important on many levels. It provides an opportunity to reiterate some of the key messages, in particular the importance of the flu vaccine. The Chairman will have heard about herd immunity. The more healthcare staff who are vaccinated, the easier it will be to eliminate the possibility of the flu taking hold in a facility. It is also important that the people who come into contact with them also get vaccinated. These are all issues related to winter planning.

On value for money, we are all agreed that value for money has to be to the fore in terms of all that we do. We cannot just give an additional €20 billion to the health services next year such that all of its needs will be met because that provides no incentive to obtain value for money.

The Deputy also spoke about delayed discharges, home help packages, step-down care and the need for approval of more home care packages. She will be aware that we recently announced 550 intensive home care packages, which are separate and different from one hour's home help in the morning or the evening. An intensive home care package facilitates people to leave hospitals. I agree that all of the focus has been on the trolley counts undertaken by the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, the HSE and so on. Trolley counting is a waste of time. I would have no difficulty with any of my loved ones having to wait in accident and emergency department for two hours for a bed. There is nothing wrong with that. Trolleys may not be comfortable but they are expensive. What is important is that people are treated with dignity and respect. However, if one of my loved ones was left waiting 19 hours for a bed when there were 20 empty beds in the hospital, I would have a difficulty with that. Hospitals should be operating at capacity, within reason. Two hours on a trolley should not be an issue but any longer than that is. The length of time people spend on trolleys is important but I would argue that the focus should be not on the number of people on trolleys but the number of people in our hospitals who should not be there. For a vulnerable older person to remain a day longer in an acute hospital than is necessary is dangerous. Our focus needs to be on that issue rather on the trolley numbers.

On the Bantry hospital issue, I apologise to the Deputy that she did not get the information. I did ask following the last committee meeting that it be sent to her. I will follow up on the matter after this meeting.