Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Corcoran Kennedy suggested earlier that there should be a Minister dedicated to climate change. I have a certain sympathy with the suggestion but the matter is a little more interesting because the first recommendation of the special Citizens' Assembly on this issue was for a new independent body with a broad range of functions and powers in respect of climate change. This was to ensure as a matter of urgency that the body would be "resourced appropriately, operated in an open and transparent manner, and be given a broad range of new functions and powers in legislation to urgently address climate change". The reason I read this out is that when this was before the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, I think it was Robert Watt who responded in an extraordinarily passionate way in opposition to it. He was absolutely, 1,000% against the idea of an independent body overseeing the implementation of climate change policy. It struck me how deeply he felt about it. I would not mind if the Minister would comment on this because I think that is what is needed to ensure that not just the Minister but the next Government and the Government after that do what is required.

As we have been discussing, the challenge is enormous. Transition is the big issue. I argue, however, that events in France and Australia indicate to us that the question of a just transition is not all it seems on paper. Deciding to put a carbon tax on fuel, heating, etc., does not cut the mustard even if there are dividends that are given back to the poor. France is a good example because it is not unlike here.

Most of the blockades in response to the issue took place in Paris and the outskirts of the city. Reading the background to these events, what has happened is that people have been pushed out of the city. They are now living in satellite towns and cities elsewhere. At the same time, public transport has been reduced, with some 11,000 km of railway track being removed. I am not proposing we do anything like that here. It is a different scale of a country. The resentment, however, that average French workers - not the very poor - have towards the French Government derives from their having been pushed out of the cities, being forced to use their cars and then being told that they have to pay for it. In addition, the wealth tax in France was reduced at the same time.

A just transition has to be that - it has to be just. If it is unjust, then, as all of us have argued here, communities, people and workers, like those in Bord na Móna, will not buy into it. Why is the Minister opposing the Bill People Before Profit is, hopefully, about to put before the Dáil? The Bill is intended to stop the issuing of any further licences for offshore fossil fuel exploration. When we raised this with representatives of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPCC, who appeared before this committee, I asked Professor Sonia Seneviratne if she thought this Bill would make a difference or had a role to play in fighting climate change. Her answer was that we have to make every effort not to add additional CO2, and engaging in further oil exploration is, therefore, not a solution. What was said makes sense. It would make sense for Ireland to turn away from fossil fuel as a source. Any additional CO2 emitted will contribute to the problem and yet the Minister and his Government are opposing this Bill when it has received broad cross-party support.

The other point I would like to put to the Minister is an argument against a carbon tax on the average person. A carbon tax should be placed instead on the profits of the fossil fuel companies. An economist told this committee yesterday that to put a carbon tax on the profits of fossil fuel companies would require an EU-wide response. In other words, corporation tax rates would have to be agreed on a European basis. This Government, and this country, however, consistently resists that sort of approach. We do not have much time left and the Minister has acknowledged that this is urgent. There is not much of a window left to address this issue. We are all up the same creek without a paddle. Can we get this right? Can we put the taxes on industries instead of on ordinary people and can we get support from the Minister's party for a simple Bill which seeks to halt the issuing of any further licences for offshore fossil fuel exploration?