Mr. Ian Elliott:

The Senator has asked important questions and I will do my best to provide her with the answers that are available to me. I emphasise that I am conscious of the fact that when I last came before the committee and spoke about this issue, I did so in terms that may have conveyed to members that I thought this was a serious situation. It is not until one has the evidence that the situation becomes real. I can give the numbers to members but I need them to think of the human cost that is involved. Very significant human suffering has taken place and has been part of the history of those who have been involved in scouting. I know that is an unpleasant message and that many people will be very shocked. The way to deal with it, however, is to own up to it and face it, not to deny it. That is important.