Dr. Mark Mellett:

Go raibh maith ag an Teachta Ó Snodaigh. He asked whether we are understood or appreciated by society. I want to commend the committee on visiting our installations. I understand some members are due to go overseas in the near future. That kind of engagement is good for the Defence Forces because it means there is political understanding of the Defence Forces. The experiences of politicians who come to see what the Defence Forces are doing allow society to have a window into our operations. That is the best way to expose the Defence Forces as a constituency. There was a time in the past when I used to compare the Defence Forces to a walled garden. We were quite happy to live behind a wall and do great stuff there like a self-licking ice cream. Things have changed now. We are completely open and transparent. We are trying to be much more engaged with other institutions, including various parts of the State, areas of government, the higher education institutions and parts of civil society. We are broadening our ability to recognise the point that none of us has all the answers. Neither the Defence Forces nor any other institution of the State has all the answers. We need to collaborate with others at national level and, in a broader sense, work with others as part of a greater multilateralism.

I will respond to the Deputy's specific point about whether the Defence Forces should expand to take in more personnel. He asked questions in this context about terms and conditions, length of service and the upper age limit. I am completely open at all times to examining every opportunity to maximise the number of recruits who come into the organisation and to be agile and flexible in retaining those who are already in service. I would love to expedite the issue of the terms and conditions of those who are currently in service so that they can get clarity on their contracts. This exact point is being examined as part of a project under the White Paper on Defence. I wish we could move on it more quickly. I am putting on the pressure to ensure this happens. Like the Deputy, I meet soldiers, sailors and air crew who are looking for clarity. If an outcome is not reached soon, decisions that are not entirely in the interests of the Defence Forces could be made. This would be a pity.

The other point I would like to make in this context is that Defence Forces personnel bring huge talent with them wherever they go. It has been mentioned that members of the Defence Forces are leaving to join other institutions in parts of the public service, including the Garda. The strength, wealth and level of development they bring with them in such circumstances is being retained within the State. When we analyse these matters, we see that many Defence Forces personnel leave to go to other parts of the public sector. This is a reflection of their attractiveness and of the reality that they are being rewarded for going into those positions.

It is important for me to deal with the issue of health and safety. In our business, it is critical to have safe operations. It goes to the heart of an organisation like the Defence Forces, which has to put people into harm's way. We have people who go into harm's way almost every day. I have led on the issue of transparency. When things happen within the organisation, there is a no-blame culture where possible. Now and then, people have violations and have to be called to order. The point is to learn lessons from the mistakes that happen. If there is transparency, the lessons that are learned will be communicated as quickly as possible to other parts of the Defence Forces where there is a need for knowledge with regard to changes in governance systems.

We have a serious accident investigation team that stands ready at all times. It has been deployed three times so far this year. It delivers a report to me as soon as possible to set out the wavetops in the context of the incident in question and to spell out what we need to put in place right away to mitigate the incident and to ensure it is not replicated. More broadly, we have a general routine order - I think it is No. 5 of 15 - that sets out the safety management system within the Defence Forces. This is necessary under national legislation. We are not rogue in the sense that we are not operating outside of our requirements under the law. We are institutionalising that law into the procedures of the Defence Forces itself. We have a risk management system and a risk assessment system. We have a system for the reporting of accidents. I suppose we have a truth culture which means that our focus is on trying to learn from every incident that happens. There can be no other way.

I remember being laughed at when I was a young sailor because I identified a problem on my ship. I immediately sent a signal to all of the other ships. My command at that time said I was foolish to expose our dirty linen in public. I still hold the principle I held that day. I am glad to see that it has been institutionalised within the Defence Forces. A mistake is acknowledged with a view to ensuring we can mitigate the effects of the immediate state while minimising the risk of it happening again. Our safety statements are reviewed continually. The Defence Forces also have health and safety plans. All of this does not sit in isolation from other parts of governance.

The issue of well-being arises in this context. I am committed to ensuring there are institutions within the Defence Forces that are promoting well-being in a general sense. This is necessary to ensure not only that people feel the workplace is safe, but also that they have a genuine desire to have their physical and mental health looked after. I acknowledge that stress is a big challenge. It is often driven by many factors, including domestic factors. I have reached out to families through our personal support services because the support base that enables men and women to operate within the Defence Forces and to give loyalty to the State is very much built on the domestic support they receive from their partners, their friends and the society around them. I have to be conscious that we are not just talking about the men and women who come through the gate into the barracks. We are also talking about the critical support base that is provided by wives, partners, husbands, parents and children. In that context, we will open a page that is specifically linked to families in the very near future. We also have a 24 hour care call system. Family members can phone into the care call line if they have an issue relating to stress. We are endeavouring to have family outreach, in as much as we can, involving members of the Defence Forces.

The Deputy raised an issue with regard to the Phoenix Park. Many soldiers in the Defence Forces felt that some of the populism associated with some of the imagery around that time was not appropriate. I was there. I saw the professionalism of the soldiers. When we go into very rough places, we lay down and operate from there. We put up our bivouacs and operate in very challenging environments, where we are not worried about syringes but about snakes or scorpions. A populist movement was driven by some imagery. I do not know where it came from.

The same point can be made about the food. It was not fair to the chefs of the Defence Forces that it was conveyed that the food was not fit for purpose. I saw the food. It was outstanding. I invite the Deputy to come to visit some time.