Mr. Seamus Boland:

I will make a few very clear points about the issues Deputies Fitzmaurice, Penrose and Eugene Murphy made. I thank all of them for their comments. The bank we are proposing is not in opposition to the credit union. Let us be clear about that. It is not an either-or; it is a complementation. We are talking about a public bank, a not for profit one and an Irish model. In this type of bank, which has been in operation for more than 200 years in Germany, vulture funds would not get in. We have farmers in this country whose land is owned by the vulture funds. I have no problem if the credit unions step up to the mark. I am a member of a credit union and I owe it a lot but Irish Rural Link's job is to challenge. That is what we are here for. We will not be bankers at the end of this process. We want to see a situation where the local business can borrow €10,000, €20,000 or even €500,000 without the fear that it will end up with a vulture funds or with the shareholders of the London Stock Exchange calling it in. That is what we want and I do not really care how we manage that.

I remember Charlie McCreevy gave out to us, saying we were great at throwing stones in through the bars and whingeing but that we never offered solutions. Here is a solution. People are free to knock it but if they do so, then they should come up with a better solution. Do not tell me the current situation is brilliant because it is not. There are thousands of people in their 30s and 40s living from day to day because they cannot meet mortgage repayments, mortgages they took out in the good years. Angela Merkel has made major comments on the quality of a public bank and has come around to the view that were it not for the public bank in Germany, it would now be in real trouble. Do not knock Irish Rural Link for doing this. We are here to challenge. We have put forward a proposal but if it is knocked, pick a better one.

On the question of rates-----