James Reilly (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Dr. Rigney for his presentation. There is a suggestion this is being used to depress wages. The meat industry has been mentioned. At what level of wage does Dr. Rigney believe it becomes attractive? There is a problem with the numbers in that area. Certainly, there is a need for this policy. It is a useful and essential policy instrument in a rapidly changing world in terms of the skill sets required. If we consider companies that want to expand in the IT, pharma and other sectors, opportunities come quickly and we do not have the necessary skills. Dr. Rigney asked if we should make them or rent them, in other words, do we hire or create our own? We must do both. It takes a long time to create our own through a training course. If we gear up, it will take a few years, but if the need is immediate, we must do both. I hope Dr. Rigney will agree with me.

In the context of the last question, policing the system is important to make sure there are no abuses. I heard what Dr. Rigney said about there not being any direct evidence, only whispers in the background.

I was relieved to hear the comments Dr. Rigney on language because they answered my question on the issue. Accommodation is part of the package and the cost is not deducted from wages, which is something that happened years ago.

I am strongly supportive of apprenticeships. They suit many people. Dr. Rigney mentioned the lack of supervision and that people are suddenly on their own when they go to college. While it is perhaps no longer as common as it once was, many people who went to boarding school where they were under total supervision used to run into trouble when they suddenly found themselves with a great deal of freedom. There is another more serious situation, which is that even though we have free education the cost of accommodation and supporting oneself is a real challenge. If one is from a larger family it can be prohibitive. People earning as they learn is certainly something I strongly support. I agree with the comment made by the employer about selling apprenticeships to the mothers of Ireland because a bit of intellectual snobbery goes on. I mentioned that while in Germany we visited the Sparkasse bank, which has its own set-up for educating bankers. It is a programme on which people earn as they learn. They make a wage but they also learn about banking. It is good because it instils a particular ethos about community and looking at the business and person and not just at the opportunity to make a commission, which is what got us into so much trouble in the past with regard to banking. Is it fair to say Dr. Rigney is broadly supportive of the apprenticeship programme? How would he improve it, other than trying to expand the areas covered to allow for overlap?