Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Overpayments are due to a variety of factors, full stop, and it is not just fraud. We are agreed. We will write and ask for the position on that.

The committee recommends closer co-operation between the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection on the issue of outstanding debt relating to redundancy in employers' insolvency schemes. It is no coincidence there are similar figures. It is said that two thirds of the companies are insolvent and the money is unlikely to be recovered. The recommendation states that a dedicated debt management team should engage directly with employers with a view to recovering debt. We are writing to them in this regard. We want details of the number of staff and the work programme of that debt management team. I got the impression they might just send out a statement once a year but we want to know the detailed work programme carried out by that team and the breakdown of the work. We understand that many of these companies are gone but they are not all gone. There is money out there that I do not think they are properly and actively pursuing. That is why we suggested talking to Revenue. We should be able to get details from Revenue in regard to those companies that are still trading and making returns for VAT or PAYE. We will see if that can be done and it is something we will come back to in our work programme. In the meantime, we will ask for the detail on the team.

The next item concerns the special liquidator for IBRC, on which we had various recommendations. Since then, the work of the committee has overtaken the various recommendations we had on that issue and we have discussed it at recent meetings with the Department.

The next recommendation was that there be a Dáil debate on the utilisation of NAMA’s projected terminal surplus of €3 billion in view of the fact EUROSTAT and the EU have no rules on this due to the unique nature of NAMA. That €3 billion we mentioned then was €3.5 billion when NAMA came before us during the summer, and it issued its most recent quarterly report yesterday, with media reports today saying it expects that terminal surplus to be €4.5 billion. The Minister accepts the recommendation on a Dáil debate and we can discuss whether the committee initiates it. The recommendation states: "However, the intention has always been to use such receipts from the resolution of the financial sector crisis to pay down our national debt and reduce our debt servicing costs." That is the stated position.

There is a second recommendation that, "a Dail debate takes place on the orderly wind down of NAMA or the possible consideration of use of NAMA for other specific purposes." It is made very clear that, under the European Commission approval for the establishment of NAMA, it has to finish its functions by the end of 2020 and that any extension of NAMA's functions could breach existing state aid approval. It got state aid approval exemptions to 2020 and, without EU approval, the Government cannot go beyond that. That does not preclude using the expertise in NAMA for some other purpose in regard to the housing crisis, however, which is another issue. We will note this. We have done our bit so far.