Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity) | Oireachtas source

There are two or three issues in this group which arise together. The Bill as it stands does not allow a voice for the pregnant woman, the person most affected by this section. That has to be corrected. It could be done in a number of ways, for example by the Minister supporting the amendments which provide for the ascertaining of the views of the woman. Amendment No. 54 is similar to amendment No. 44 tabled by Deputy Donnelly, and reads, "to give effect to the pregnant person's wishes". The language in amendment No. 54 is much stronger.

This is necessary because it is up to the doctors and they can override the person. There is a case, which I might consider it on Report Stage, for even adding a clause, after (a), (b) and (c), in reference to a risk to health, along the lines of "and the pregnant person deems this risk unacceptable." It came up in the committee hearings that different doctors have different views on what is a risk. It is subjective. It is good that we are not putting in conditions. The patient, as we would say if it was in another setting, should also have a say. We have seen this paternalistic attitude with cervical cancer. If we are serious about that issue, then we should reflect it in the legislation. An example is a woman with serious health problems. We have all read about, and could cite, cases where a woman has said she was not prepared to take that risk. The doctors should listen to what she has to say.

I support these amendments and perhaps they could even be strengthened so that rather than saying "consult" or "get the views", refers to the woman being a factor in the case. There is also the question of "examined". This idea of two doctors examining the passive woman lying there speaks to that kind of paternalistic language. If a woman's health is at risk, she will not get an abortion over the phone, just in case anyone thought that was possible. The woman, of course, has to be physically there. The point is that it is about a consultation or discussion on what that person feels. That person may have had serious issues in previous pregnancies in childbirth and that all has to be explored with the doctors. I do not know if we are taking "serious harm" now, if it comes into this group, or whether we are leaving that for the moment?