Kate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Like Deputy Donnelly, I know what the Minister's intentions are here. I cannot see what the problem is with the March version as I imagine it was cleared with the Attorney General.

Let us consider the word "extraordinary" and, as Deputy Bríd Smith has asked, what is meant by extraordinary versus ordinary. I spent a long time in an intensive care unit with a neonate one time so I can attest to the fact that medical staff do extraordinary things in such units and throw the kitchen sink at such cases. Sometimes when things get really bad they make a call to do something according to guidelines or whatever, and their actions often save the baby or improve life. I have been there and seen that they make decisions on the hop, obviously the best clinically supported decisions. We must focus on what is routine and normal medical practice. If I may, I shall read the amendment. If the legislation were to be amended, as I have suggested, then it would read:

""viability" means the point in a pregnancy at which, in the reasonable opinion of a medical practitioner, the foetus is capable of survival outside the uterus with reasonable medical care". I believe that the words "reasonable" and "ordinary" are almost equal. I do not want to fall out with Deputy Donnelly. He explained the legislation very well compared with how I read it. I would much prefer if my amendment were accepted and the words "with reasonable medical care" inserted. If the legislation is as Deputy Donnelly has suggested then we should be very careful that the interpretation of "extraordinary measures" in the clinical guidelines is exceptionally clear.

In hospitals, service providers or wherever that have religious codes of ethics, we must ensure that under no circumstances can the religious codes of ethics of a particular organisation trump clinical guidelines. I say that because we cannot have a situation where a woman in this situation ends up in a bad situation in a hospital with religious codes of ethics that use this sort of interpretation. I know and accept what Deputy Donnelly is trying to do with his amendment. I really do not see, if we went back to the March version, what the unintended consequences could be but I am willing to work with him on this matter to make things right. We, or those of us who want this to happen, need to be assured before Report Stage that we will not end up in a situation where the legislation can be subject to misinterpretation because at the end of the day it is all going to affect the women who are pregnant.