Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 6 November 2018

Select Committee on Health

Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage

11:00 am

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I would never argue with Deputy O'Connell because she is one of my favourite members of the committee, but there has been a misunderstanding on this issue which I wish to clarify. This wording would have been of assistance in the Miss P case. All of the Deputy's arguments would be correct if the section stated "with extraordinary life-sustaining measures". If I was bringing forward a definition of viability such that a foetus would be considered to be viable if extraordinary life-sustaining measures could keep it alive, we would be in the era of catechisms and so on. However, I am saying a foetus is not viable if it cannot survive without these extraordinary life-sustaining measures. Deputy Donnelly correctly pointed out that the legislation could state the foetus would be viable if ordinary life-sustaining measures could keep it alive. However, it does not state that but, rather, that extraordinary measures would have to be used.

We do not want this to lead to normalisation of the very difficult and painful situation outlined by Deputy Donnelly where doctors would have to go beyond ordinary resuscitation measures and so on which, in the normal course of neonatal care, would be seen as keeping the baby viable. This is an extra protection for doctors and women and a more compassionate approach to viability. The formulation in the Bill specifies that a foetus would not be considered to be viable if extraordinary measures beyond those used in normal current neonatal medical practice would be required to save the life of the foetus. This definition is included to try to provide clarity that this is not about the ordinary life-sustaining measures that could be used in a resuscitation unit or neonatal care but, rather, applies a higher bar of extraordinary measures in order that doctors will not find themselves in situations where, theoretically and technically, they could take certain steps to maintain the viability of the foetus but in so doing would only cause absolute agony and pain for the parents, which none of us wants to do. That is where it came from and what it is trying to do.

I do not wish to discuss individual cases too much, but in the Miss P case it would have been a good start if the eighth amendment had not been in place. If this viability bar had been applied in that case, it would have been a very different set of circumstances because the question would have been as to whether the foetus could have survived without extraordinary, rather than ordinary, life-sustaining measures. That is what we are trying to do. It is a well intentioned definition.

I would be interested in hearing the views of the clinical community and our clinical leads. I have some familiarity with their views on the matter and will be happy to ensure those views are made available to the committee before Report Stage. The intention is to set the bar at an appropriate level such that the clinician can make a compassionate decision on viability in very tragic cases.

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