Kate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

To follow the contributions of Deputy Donnelly and the Minister, my amendment specifically speaks to the removal of the words "without extraordinary life-sustaining measures" to be substituted by "with reasonable medical care". The March version of the general scheme of the Bill which was placed in front of the people defined viability as "the point in pregnancy at which, in the reasonable opinion of a medical practitioner, the foetus is capable of sustained survival outside the uterus". Defining viability by reference to extraordinary treatment would be problematic, as it is vague and would give rise to a range of interpretations. It could potentially lead to vast numbers of interpretations and experiences in different hospitals.

If I am correct, we are speaking about the 12-week period; therefore, the pregnant woman would be very sick if an entitlement to an abortion was being considered. If I understand it correctly, she would be in a position where there was a risk to life or a serious risk of harm to health. It could be interpreted in vastly different ways. I was very happy with the March version, but the July version references extraordinary care. As I do of a weekend, I just happened to be reading the catechism of the Catholic Church. In the section which deals with respect for human life paragraph 2278 refers to extraordinary and disproportionate care. If the Chairman will indulge me, I will read this brief part of the catechism. It states: "Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of 'over-zealous' treatment".

I accept that I will argue with the Minister about this, but I am concerned about the differences between the March and the later version of the Bill. We have heard so many times this morning about what we told the people we would do and what we were going to do. The logic has been used so many times to say we cannot do something because we told the people something else. We told them something in March, but we are now looking to do it differently. The only change is that bit of the catechism, which is a good read. There is also reference to socio-economic circumstances, which is another day's work.

I think of Ms P in Mullingar. If a woman is sick and a foetus can be kept alive by extraordinary means, the Minister could be allowing something similar to what happened to Ms P happen again in the way this is phrased. I realise we are coming at the issue from different angles. Perhaps there are people present who know something different, but I have spent hours looking at this provision. The law clearly could be used to keep that woman pregnant until the stage of viability was reached. We are talking exactly about such a case. The woman could be unconscious and a caesarean section could be carried out, even if she did not consent to it. To me, it smells of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013, from which we are trying to move away.

I am concerned and would like an explanation for the distinct difference between what is in the Bill and what was placed before the people. Perhaps it is a cut and paste job or whatever happens in Departments, but it is extraordinary that the catechism could just end up where one might not expect it to turn up. It was not used before and I argue that it did not get in there by accident. I know that Deputy Bríd Smith recently mentioned the word "sinister". I know what the Minister's intentions are.