Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I fully respect the legal advice and the Minister's expressions on same.

Notwithstanding that legal advice and having been a member of the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution, which engaged in a long debate, and listened to the very impassioned positions held by people, I suggest that Deputy O'Connell's amendment No. 9 is much more accommodating of the sensitivities surrounding the debate on the procedures, whatever they may be.

I acknowledge what the Minister said about the legal advice. I note the position in regard to twins. The definition of abortion laid out by the Citizens' Assembly is that the intention is to deliberately enter a procedure which will terminate the life of the foetus or the unborn or whatever the case may be. However, the support for that harsh language was not evident at the time we discussed those things during the course of the hearings of the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution. That is why we need to be a little bit sensitive to the issues that affect women. During the course of the committee hearings we came across several cases of women who were unsure, uncertain, isolated, alone and fearful of what the implications were. In some cases, it may be a greater assurance to women in those circumstances to have less terminal language, no pun intended language. By stating what is legally acceptable and legally advised, it may well be that a woman or a girl in certain circumstances may not feel she has the entitlement, the support or is happy and free to proceed in the way she wants to. Let us remember also that we spent a great deal of time during the committee hearings on the topic of counselling and the need to be supportive and helpful to the girl or woman who finds herself in a position where she feels she has to seek a termination. Notwithstanding all the other points made, these points should be borne in mind.